End Goal: Hymns

[fleetfingers]

I play classical and prefer to teach it, but I have many parents from church wanting their child - usually around the age of 10 - to take lessons for "a couple of years" . . . just to be able to play hymns.

Because of this large pool of prospective students, I am wondering if it's possible to get a 10-year-old to the point of being able to play hymns - starting as a complete beginner - in 2 years. What do you think? Have you done it before?

[ajspiano]

I play classical and prefer to teach it, but I have many parents from church wanting their child - usually around the age of 10 - to take lessons for "a couple of years" . . . just to be able to play hymns.

Because of this large pool of prospective students, I am wondering if it's possible to get a 10-year-old to the point of being able to play hymns - starting as a complete beginner - in 2 years. What do you think? Have you done it before?

Yes I would certainly think so, but it would obviously be dependent on the student working diligently..

that said.. I'd have trouble not getting into a bit of a "discussion" with a parent who wanted to define their child's musical interest as hymns, and not care for further development.

[fleetfingers]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree with you about a parent wanting such a narrow piano education for their child. I wouldn't want this for my own kids, but I've been thinking about the fact that many students "try out" piano and then quit after a couple of years anyway. I do not personally like the idea of only teaching for hymns (not that I dislike hymns, but because you're missing out on so much, and it's not fun), BUT if they will only take lessons for two years anyway, why not teach them a specific skill, even if it's limited?

Glad that you think it's possible! Yes, they would have to be dilligent . . . learning to read 6+ notes at a time is not necessarily easy or fun. 

[ajspiano]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree with you about a parent wanting such a narrow piano education for their child. I wouldn't want this for my own kids, but I've been thinking about the fact that many students "try out" piano and then quit after a couple of years anyway. I do not personally like the idea of only teaching for hymns (not that I dislike hymns, but because you're missing out on so much, and it's not fun), BUT if they will only take lessons for two years anyway, why not teach them a specific skill, even if it's limited?

Glad that you think it's possible! Yes, they would have to be dilligent . . . learning to read 6+ notes at a time is not necessarily easy or fun. 

I guess it depends how you approach it.. you could do it from a learning to read big chords directly angle, or you could do a lot of work on triads/inversions and common chord progressions,  transposition through easier keys, 4 part writing etc..

But that may initially be difficult to present to a 10 yr old beginner and have them be excited about it.. you'd certainly have to watch them and make sure you didn't run them over with theory that's out of their depth...   but you could perhaps teach those skills in the context of more desirable music, and the result would be that hymns, when first seen 2 years later, aren't that difficult..

[quantum]

I feel hymns are sort of like mini etudes.  They teach many elements of technique and theory in brief packages of music.  If one wanted hymns on steroids Bach's chorales are a great study.

There are some "hymn like" pieces in the RCM syllabus, and I have observed students tend to have a bit more difficulty with these than other pieces at the same grade level.  Not that it is a struggle, but that they need to put much more concentrated effort to play through them. 

Hymns do require a certain degree of technical facility and familiarity with the instrument.  For a beginner, perhaps emphasize the more important parts of a hymn, and add the other parts as the student gains ability at the instrument.  Maybe start with unison melody, both hands.  Add the singing of text and sensitivity to breathing with this. 

[hsalix]

I don't teach with a specific "goal" in sight (whether it be hymns or playing this or that song by the current pop sensation).  I always tell parents that I teach classical but that since classical music is at the base of everything, they will be able to use their knowledge to play whatever they like later on.  If they don't understand that, it generally means that they are not serious about it, and then I'm not interested in teaching them.  Most of them seem to get it though. 

[fleetfingers]

I don't teach with a specific "goal" in sight (whether it be hymns or playing this or that song by the current pop sensation).  I always tell parents that I teach classical but that since classical music is at the base of everything, they will be able to use their knowledge to play whatever they like later on.  If they don't understand that, it generally means that they are not serious about it, and then I'm not interested in teaching them.  Most of them seem to get it though. 

I don't know if that's always the case. For example, I learned classical for many years, but it was after I spent some time playing hymns each week at church that I became a MUCH better sight reader. And then I was able to learn classical pieces a lot faster than I could before. At least for me, it was not the way you suggest. With all of the classical playing I did, I still could not play hymns until I actually practiced playing the hymns themselves.

Also, hymns are chords. There are no scales, no trills, no fast finger passages. So, I think that the usual techniques we teach classical students are not necessary for someone who simply wants to be able to play hymns.

I see what you are saying, though, and I teach with similar ideas in mind. The only thing that makes me stop and consider teaching a more specific area of music is the fact that not everyone wants the end goal of being able to play anything. Piano is not their number one hobby in life, and they are not serious enough to spend years of their life working on the whole range of skills.

With a goal to play hymns after two years, the main focus would be sightreading. Specifically, adding more and more notes at a time sooner than you normally would. I would teach the scales and chords within the scales, and methodically get them to a point where they are playing those chords in many different keys. I don't think that I have to use hymns themselves as they are progressing, but definitely music that is preparing them for such. Anyway, I would argue that such a method would make them very good sightreaders, and then they could use that knowledge to improve in any kind of music they choose. They may have a hard time with classical techniques, but at that point I figure they will be old enough to ask for classical lessons if that is something they're interested in.

[fleetfingers]

I feel hymns are sort of like mini etudes.  They teach many elements of technique and theory in brief packages of music.  If one wanted hymns on steroids Bach's chorales are a great study.

There are some "hymn like" pieces in the RCM syllabus, and I have observed students tend to have a bit more difficulty with these than other pieces at the same grade level.  Not that it is a struggle, but that they need to put much more concentrated effort to play through them. 

Hymns do require a certain degree of technical facility and familiarity with the instrument.  For a beginner, perhaps emphasize the more important parts of a hymn, and add the other parts as the student gains ability at the instrument.  Maybe start with unison melody, both hands.  Add the singing of text and sensitivity to breathing with this. 

Great ideas, thanks! I like your idea of starting with the basic structure of the hyms and adding other parts gradually. I have a book of simplified hymns that I was planning to use at some point to get them used to the basic feel. I didn't think of breathing sensitivity, great idea, definitely something I will do early on with the easier stuff.

[iansinclair]

If that's what the parents want...

But I must admit that I'm not convinced that learning to play hymns as such is such a good idea at that level.  Mind, I play hymns -- or at least used to! -- as I was a Minister of Music.  As has been noted, it's great for your sight reading!  I have to ask: would this be so they could actually play service music?  If so, you are looking at learning three to four hymns each week.  Second, there are two things one absolutely must be able to do when playing a hymn for service music: first, keep going; if you make a mistake or get your fingers tied up in knots, you have to keep going anyway.  Second, and closely related, is to pick a singable tempo and Stick With It.  There are few things worse than the organist or pianist varying the tempo -- particularly slowing down.  You don't have to be an absolute metronomic idiot about it, but... you have to be pretty darn solid.

I might add that if one is going to play all four parts (usually; sometimes varies) on the piano, you'd better have big hands and good pedal technique.  Most hymnals are set up for vocal harmony, not pianistic facility.  On an organ, no particular sweat (you have the pedals for the bass line, after all) but on a piano it can be... interesting.

[the89thkey]

If that's what the parents want...

But I must admit that I'm not convinced that learning to play hymns as such is such a good idea at that level.  Mind, I play hymns -- or at least used to! -- as I was a Minister of Music.  As has been noted, it's great for your sight reading!  I have to ask: would this be so they could actually play service music?  If so, you are looking at learning three to four hymns each week.  Second, there are two things one absolutely must be able to do when playing a hymn for service music: first, keep going; if you make a mistake or get your fingers tied up in knots, you have to keep going anyway.  Second, and closely related, is to pick a singable tempo and Stick With It.  There are few things worse than the organist or pianist varying the tempo -- particularly slowing down.  You don't have to be an absolute metronomic idiot about it, but... you have to be pretty darn solid.

I might add that if one is going to play all four parts (usually; sometimes varies) on the piano, you'd better have big hands and good pedal technique.  Most hymnals are set up for vocal harmony, not pianistic facility.  On an organ, no particular sweat (you have the pedals for the bass line, after all) but on a piano it can be... interesting.

Yes...it can also be annoying to hear a pianist accompanying hymns with long flowing arpeggios based on the melody of the hymn, a la Debussy or Ravel, and equally annoying to listen to them giving the impression that you are listening to a version of the Rach 3 ossia cadenza. Whatever you do, you are not inventing a cadenza, you are accompanying singers...

[bmbutler]

Hymns are a different bird and are more complicated to play (4 part) than most people realize.  I remember I had a good friend in our youth group growing up.  We both played the piano.  He could tear the piano up with classical music, but could not play a hymn well.  I was an average classical music player, but could play any hymn you put in front of me.

It takes continual practice.

[baycruiser]

Interesting read.  I’m a senior (mid level beginner) that started years ago, then had to quit due to job demands.  Started back up several months ago and have started working on some hymns as a supplement to my practice routine.  I end up pencilling in fingerings and sometimes use the right hand to include the tenor notes.   I have started with “Joy to the World”  and it’s been challenging, but I’m getting there.
Appreciate the discussion.

[timothy42b]

Interesting read.  I’m a senior (mid level beginner) that started years ago, then had to quit due to job demands.  Started back up several months ago and have started working on some hymns as a supplement to my practice routine.  I end up pencilling in fingerings and sometimes use the right hand to include the tenor notes.   I have started with “Joy to the World”  and it’s been challenging, but I’m getting there.
Appreciate the discussion.

It's a 10 year old thread, but still relevant.

I played hymns in church my first year of lessons, because there was noone else willing.  I didn't say available - most of the time the congregation included some piano players, but hymns are a special case with a lot of pressure to perform, and showtime cannot be delayed a week while you get one under your fingers, unlike a lesson. 

There are different hymn traditions in different denominations.  I played off lead sheets for Roman Catholic services, and nobody cared how simplified my chords were.  Mainstream Protestant hymns were SATB, and while those look easy they are not.  (and not just for a beginner) Level 1 cheat is to just use I, IV, and V as appropriate; level 2 cheat is to recognize chords, simplify a bit and leave a few out; level 3 is SA plus B.  Occasionally I could actually play all SATB but that was rare, and you had to be alert to where one hand has to catch the other staff's notes.  Praise and Worship stuff of course was lead sheet, you were expected to dress it up (runs, arpeggios, etc) but low expectations. 

Gospel is a whole different story.  I was in awe of those chord progressions and never got anywhere near playing that stuff.  (plus on organ I only understood pipe stops and had no clue about those drawbars.)