Rach 3 = technical difficulty>musicality?

[p2u_]

I'll take this conversation offline.

Yes, please do. Preferably, talk to an experienced conductor who has actually conducted this concerto.

There are waaay too many red herrings on unrelated topics (the conductor feels the music on the keyboard?

This is a misquotation of what was actually stated. Read again and quote correctly, please.

the different listening experiences equate to musicality?)

This is (again) a misquotation of what was actually stated.The final listening experience is NOT solely based upon purely "musical" features. The only thing we can say for sure is that this concerto is a formidable task for both performers and listeners, and if the performers do not take into account certain factors that influence the perception of the listeners, then we get what you are saying: the subjective IMPRESSION of too many notes. I tried to point that out in my second to last post, but you seem to have missed the necessary elements that explain this. If we cannot agree first upon the premises and assumptions of the argument, then we can never come to a more or less correct conclusion about alleged or perceived note redundancy either.

I don't care that the music is different if you leave out notes (wow, you just added nothing to the conversation). [...]

These are statements that express nothing but disdain towards the other board members. They don't help your argument a bit though. All they create is even more confusion. Please, just tell us what you have to say. Why exactly are there redundant notes in Rachmaninov 3?

Paul

[p2u_]

Listen to Argerich's famous Rach 3 performance and then come back to me.

OK. I have listened to this for the nth time in my entire life. While I think I see now what you mean, I still do not agree with you. I'll try to explain why.

Rachmaninov never writes music just because of the sounds. He paints pictures, partly for the ear, partly for the other senses. This means that in certain places, he DELIBERATELY "drowns" the pianist in the sound of the orchestra. Have you ever seen someone drown, too far away to be saved? They move a lot, try to scream, but are not heard, and it doesn't make sense to yell at them to just relax, do nothing because it's no use. It sure does add a lot of horror to what you see happening. Here we see the same. The pianist continues moving, fighting for her life, for her dignity, protesting against all that violence. The very fact that she can no longer be heard is part of the drama. If Argerich just sat there and relaxed, doing nothing, the picture wouldn't make sense because there would be no victim. The very act of continuing movement creates a general psychological tension in both the performers and the listeners in that same piece. I can assure you that this psychological tension is even transmitted through Audio-Only. That's why I stay with what I stated before: everything's there as intended and you cannot leave any elements out.
P.S.: "Drowning" here means, of course, drowning in emotions, in something that is bigger than you and I, in something that overwhelms you. If you have the phantasy for it, you can even drown in a woman's deep beautiful eyes.

Paul

[emrysmerlin]

ok. Sorry for my absence from pianostreet in christmas, I will soon post some edited pages of the  Rach 3 piano score, with notes which I personally think do not hugely contribute to the music removed.

[p2u_]

I will soon post some edited pages of the  Rach 3 piano score, with notes which I personally think do not hugely contribute to the music removed.

You said in your first post that 50% of what Rachmaninov put down in this concerto is useless. I hope this time you will accompany your post with a little more substantial justification. "I think", "I feel", "Like", "Dislike" is not enough argument to touch the architecture in a Work of Art.

Paul

[lousyplayer]

I could't agree more, I never understood what the fuss about it was because when I listen I don't think is that great,  a mish mash of notes in some places. Is over the top. That's why I think good composers write what is sufficient and necessary to achieve a certain effect or sound. Music is not a finger competition ffs.