This damn invention...I have probably tried every reasonable fingering and I can't play fast or memorize properly...There's always some places that feel awkward and uncomfortable for my hands. The only way I can play some parts comfortably is with my long fingers close to the fallboard and with my upright that's hard to do without getting tension. It seems my hand shape, my instrument and the writing are incompatible
interesting. Is your pianos action heavier? What specifically is the problem with speeding up.. feels tense? Have you tried using parallel set practice?
In general my thumb slows me down and forces me to adjust my hand all the time.
Try applying what you learnt to another invention! You need to figure out what stops you when closer to fall board. You could try curving your fingers less! Use a flatter position. Do you have a teacher? Which invention is it?
These guys claim you don't need to use it at all.https://www.schott-music.com/shop/Sheet_Music/Piano_Harpsichord_Harp/Piano_Harpsichord/1261763/show,42134,s.html
would it work on a piano?
When I speed up I either get tense or if I try not to I play the wrong notes.
I feel frustrated because this piece is not musically challenging and I got the hands together pretty easily, but I can't get the mechanics right...
Ive played that one. Tell me what fingerings you are using, and where it doesnt work, or a snap shot of wtitten fingerings and i can help.
My piano is ok when I play in the front half of the white keys, but when going deep between the black keys gets difficult to play fast. And with my hand shape I seem to end up there all the time...The problems are with the right hand, even the first measure. The 1-2 stretch from e-a I can only do if I extend my 2nd finger and then I already end up deep in the keys. If I use 3 instead I get trouble later in the measure.In general my thumb slows me down and forces me to adjust my hand all the time.
Don't really know much about the parallel set thing.
You are mistaken. It is the musical challenges that cause your mechanics to break down. See above.
no amount of practicing even tiny fragments will get me ready until I get the hand movements to be more comfortable.
https://pianofundamentals.com/book/en/1.III.20 - parallel sets in bach inventions
This is what parallel sets do.....on the musical front - if you can play one hand and sing the other without also playing it I'd be convinced.
I agree that I am not ready to speed up, but the problem is that no amount of practicing even tiny fragments will get me ready until I get the hand movements to be more comfortable.
Is the first note by itself (without playing the other notes) difficult to play? How about the second note without the other notes (even without the first)? As soon as you realize that principle, you can play two notes, then three, etc. keeping that same sense of comfort and without forcing the speed. Drop the idea of STRETCHING!
P.S.: Here is a nice analysis of the invention: Two versions of the A minor invention for you to appreciate how "musically unchallenging" this thing really is.
I also agree about not forcing the speed. Obviously I CAN play the thing faster because I did once at my lesson, I just cannot do it consistently and practicing with my own piano seems to not do what it's supposed to do.
Is this a pissing contest?
I just gave this analysis for you to see that the structure of the piece is not as simple as the notes themselves would suggest.
OK. I will no longer bother you with instructions. The only thing I want you to realize is that if you have never played any pieces like these, it is FAR FROM EASY and needs time getting used to. It would be a pitty to draw the wrong conclusions and drop the whole thing.
You could try 13431343525 for the first bar (RH) - it avoids the 1-2 stretch and shouldn't get you into trouble.
Don't have my book here and I can never remember my fingerings unless at the piano...but looking at the sheet on PS I realized there's one combination that I have not tried...need to try it out later...I have decided not to go futher on the piece this week unless I have the beginning sorted out. And if we still can't in my next lesson I'll just drop the piece and wait until I get a harpsichord or a nice little grand with easier action. I already notice that practicing this piece is having negative effect on my other playing because of the tension and tiredness it causes.
on the musical front - if you can play one hand and sing the other without also playing it I'd be convinced.
The only problem is that I cannot do the whole thing because there's no way I could hit the notes below C on the LH no matter how much I try...
Half a bottle of scotch and a few cigars every day for a week are good for an extra half octave or so.
Its true... i reached a 10th today! I have pictures! I did it comfortably without stretching. Im female, average european size....
Well...it takes a couple years for it to kick in....Lame joke but hey, do you feel pain when stretching to reach notes in the pieces you are working on?
Its ok. It starts out difficult to do evetything right, hit right notes and avoid others and pedaling while listening to so many sounds, trying to make music out of it. Its like a baby trying to walk in high heels. Once you learn how to walk barefoot, and then in regular shoes.....em....youll get used to it and gain expetience, knowledge and skill to play (at least some) of the pieces you want! I promise! Dont give up on the invention. Have some discipline and use those problem solving skills.
I do enjoy solving problems...it's routines that I have more trouble with. Certain problems with my physique I just can't solve myself and that is really annoying, unsolvable problems is not something I encounter often. There's usually always a solution to be found... I don't give up easily (and I won't on this one yet), but sometimes it is the best thing to do if practicing makes more harm than good. I have worked so hard to get rid of some tensions and I don't want to be back where I started.If nothing else works I guess I could always decide that this piece actually sounds better played very slowly...BTW I just looked at the manuscript on PS and there is no tempo indication at all? Are there notes by Bach elsewhere or did someone else invent those?
If nothing else works I guess I could always decide that this piece actually sounds better played very slowly...BTW I just looked at the manuscript on PS and there is no tempo indication at all? Are there notes by Bach elsewhere or did someone else invent those?
The type of fingering I showed you, using the 1-3 rather than 1-2 and relying more on 3, 4 and 5 than other people might, will work, I think, for this Invention. It won't work for everything, though, so there is another technique you need to consider. It is essentially the same as is used in more advanced pieces, such as Chopin 10/1, and if you didn't have the thumb issue you wouldn't really need it until then. With your thumb, though, it will be very useful much earlier.Basically, you need to learn to move your whole hand when you move from 1 to 2, just enough so you don't have to stretch more than is comfortable/reliable. Not exactly a leap, but a bit like one. Hard to explain, but if you have a look at AJs Chopin 10/1 Project thread you'll get some good information and demo vids of what's involved.
With some of the technical issues resolved I am finding myself in the so familiar situation...I am actually pining to work on another piece and while for an average person it might work to just tell myself that I work on this one first and then I get to do the other one, it won't work. I am restless and unable to concentrate on what I am doing. I am not a kind of person who could look at a cake and think I will eat it later Sometimes it's just wise to listen to oneself and even if dropping a piece means giving up, it's still better than not practicing at all...and I don't feel the time was completely wasted anyway, I am sure I learned a few things It actually makes sense to me now why I never learned to play as a child and was so happy to drop the piano. Those endless lessons with books full of pieces that I had no enjoyment from and which I never properly learned. I was sometimes secretly trying to learn pieces from my older sister's books (I remember an easy arrangement of a Chopin nocturne that I played by myself but never thought I could tell my teacher). But those days one was supposed to learn everything in order. Maybe my present motivation issues are some sort of uncounsciouss reaction to those childhood lessons?
It wasn't until I got good at sight reading that I really appreciated the beauty of Bach and especially how important it was to be able to sight read his part writing as a test for overall piano fingering understanding and coordination.
That is no surprise for me because you need a well-tempered ear to listen to most of it. Actually, to get you into Bach, I would not advise you to listen to his work too much initially, but instead find good jazz improvisations on some of his tunes. They can be really fun. For example this one by Bobby McFerrin (Based on the famous Largo from the concerto No.5 in F Minor, BWV 1056) or this Salute to Bach by the Oscar Peterson Trinity...Paul
I can't think of any other off the wall (from the piano standpoint) fingerings I've used on organ, but I'm sure there are some...
Oh, and no sustain pedal means you can't cheat holding notes. On an organ particularly, it really stands out if you stuff that up. Learnt that the hard way.