Chopin Ballade 1 and Pain/Soreness

[danvinguyen24]

Hello. I am currently playing this ballade. I have troubles with the octaves on the right hand, measures 110-113. I can play it hands separately but when I put them together I just mess up.
And when I play the octaves, my forearms and wrists become very sore and I can't play after. I asked my teacher for help, but she doesn't have any experience/knowledge of different techniques to do this.

Do u have any suggestions or things I should do to help myself and this piece?
This would be greatly appreciated because I have to perform this for CM in March!

Thank you so much!

[danvinguyen24]

*Edit:
I have small hands so maybe this also plays a factor too?

[pianoman53]

slowly, and make sure you do everything correctly...

[perfect_pitch]

I have small hands so maybe this also plays a factor too?

Yes, but sadly enough - I've seen tiny, wee russian women playing pieces with octaves like nothing can hold them back.

Interesting question. What span do you have? Can you reach a 9th, 10th?

Can you play an octave with fingers, 1-4 & 1-3?

[pts1]

Pain and soreness is definitely not good. The octaves are probably above your skill level and/or your playing them with the wrong movements.

First of all, octaves are played with active finger movement, not just "hit".

With correctly played octaves, the finger pads very near the tips are "gripping" the keys and pulling them down, with the assisting movements of hand and arm. It is a balance between the three elements, and if the fingers aren't stroking the key the octaves will fail.

I suggest you start with a smaller interval that's comfortable for your hands.

A fifth for instance.

First, stroke the key 5 times with just the thumb. Then stroke the key with the fifth finger 5 times.

Then, as you try and keep this feeling, play the fifth -- thumb and fifth finger -- at the same time trying to feel a balance and coordination of the fingers, hand and arm, stroking the keys as you pull down.

This should be easy and pain free. And between strokes you have micro moments of partial relaxation since after you stroke the key, the work is finished except for getting ready to play the next repetition.

After you feel like you're playing the interval -- the fifth -- with fingers and hand/arm, then widen the interval to a sixth trying to keep the same feeling I described.

Then a seventh and finally an octave.

Every interval/octave should feel like you are stroking the key as I described, not hitting it!

I think if you'll follow what I suggest, you'll discover a completely different way to play octaves that offers much more control, ease and precision.

[frank_48]

Do you hold down the dotted semibreve note for the whole duration during the octave skips?

does anyone do that for that matter?

[danhuyle]

The chords (from bar 110-113), B major 7, A major 7, B minor, C# major, F# major and B major 7.

When you say your hands are small, my guess is that your hands only allow you reach an octave and no more than that.

Do you hold down the dotted semibreve note for the whole duration during the octave skips?

does anyone do that for that matter?

I hadn't noticed paid attention to it until you brought it up. Basically what I did was hold them for 3 beats in bars 110-111. Now I have to retrain my brain on those 2 bars.

In a way, you can make a "clean getaway"

[danvinguyen24]

Yes, but sadly enough - I've seen tiny, wee russian women playing pieces with octaves like nothing can hold them back.

Interesting question. What span do you have? Can you reach a 9th, 10th?

Can you play an octave with fingers, 1-4 & 1-3?

I can somewhat reach a 9th but that's all... I also noticed that my shoulders tense up too when I'm playing--somehow it became a natural habit..? My arms just become really tense

[danvinguyen24]

Pain and soreness is definitely not good. The octaves are probably above your skill level and/or your playing them with the wrong movements.

First of all, octaves are played with active finger movement, not just "hit".

With correctly played octaves, the finger pads very near the tips are "gripping" the keys and pulling them down, with the assisting movements of hand and arm. It is a balance between the three elements, and if the fingers aren't stroking the key the octaves will fail.

I suggest you start with a smaller interval that's comfortable for your hands.

A fifth for instance.

First, stroke the key 5 times with just the thumb. Then stroke the key with the fifth finger 5 times.

Then, as you try and keep this feeling, play the fifth -- thumb and fifth finger -- at the same time trying to feel a balance and coordination of the fingers, hand and arm, stroking the keys as you pull down.

This should be easy and pain free. And between strokes you have micro moments of partial relaxation since after you stroke the key, the work is finished except for getting ready to play the next repetition.

After you feel like you're playing the interval -- the fifth -- with fingers and hand/arm, then widen the interval to a sixth trying to keep the same feeling I described.

Then a seventh and finally an octave.

Every interval/octave should feel like you are stroking the key as I described, not hitting it!

I think if you'll follow what I suggest, you'll discover a completely different way to play octaves that offers much more control, ease and precision.

Thank you I will try that out and see how it goes!

[danvinguyen24]

Do you hold down the dotted semibreve note for the whole duration during the octave skips?

does anyone do that for that matter?

No I don't...

[perfect_pitch]

Do you hold down the dotted semibreve note for the whole duration during the octave skips?

does anyone do that for that matter?

HEY!!! I do that... and I can uncomfortable just reach a 10th. I have to play this for a competition, so I can't take any shortcuts.