Willis piano

[donncadh]

I have had a Willis piano for many years. It was bought for me in Ireland as a young player, and now lives with me in France. It carries a shipping label suggesting that it was shipped to Ireland from England. The frame number is 12309, and another number, 215, in a circle (model number?). The only trace I can find is the Canadian piano manufacturer Willis, which went out of business in 1978. It seems so unlikely that such an ordinary piano would have been sent across the Atlantic that I seek another explanation. Any comment would be welcome.

[hfmadopter]

Why not ? A lot of Canadian pianos were shipped around the world or distributed, sort to speak.
Does is play well and hold a tuning ?

[donncadh]

Perhaps you are right, then. It would be interesting to know its date, from the serial number.
I find it hard to say whether it plays well, for the sound is too familiar to me, and I have always been used to the slightly heavy touch. One hammer is a bit slow on the rebound. I seldom get it tuned, for I have been playing very little. The last tuner said it was not necessary to have it done yearly - perhaps because it is not often played. But I could not do without it.
It is nice to be able to talk about it to you. Maybe there will be other replies.

[silverwoodpianos]

Willis & Co Ste Thérèse-de-Blainville, Quebec  Canada
Serial number 12309 = 1916

Willis, L & O   Landshut, Germany
Serial number 12309 = 1952

Will require photos to identify.

[hfmadopter]

Willis & Co Ste Thérèse-de-Blainville, Quebec  Canada
Serial number 12309 = 1916

Willis, L & O   Landshut, Germany
Serial number 12309 = 1952

Will require photos to identify.

Dan, in the free piano blue book online,  I found a Willis & Sons ? I didn't find the serial number of the OP's piano though. Is this company related to the ones you listed I wonder ?

[silverwoodpianos]

I checked four atlas sources for those numbers in the blue book and they do not match up with any series I have listed for Willis.

Something is wrong with that blue book listing I believe; I just checked Canada’s six top piano producers and up to that point they were all in four digit serials.

 A listing that starts 1900 with 20 thousand pianos made would have been an old and very popular company; at that point well known around the world like Chickering or Steinway.

 There are two other references to the name Willis that I have; one was a maker of reed organs in London, Canada and the other in Nova Scotia, Canada. No serials available.

Photos of the cabinet and then with the front board removed so I could see a picture of the action would determine if this item was of Canadian origin.

[donncadh]

How exciting to have your reactions and information. I gather that you have some doubt about the serial numbers being so easily dated. If the "blue book" information were accurate, I'd opt for 1916, for the piano was bought for me in the Fifties, but as a "renovated" instrument, with flat panelling added to cover up the old  inset panels (still visible behind it), and shiny black varnish everywhere. It was the fashion then, and I hope it has died out!
Here are the photos you requested. My piano does not look nearly so shabby in reality: perhaps it is the flash.
: alas, this is all that happens when I try to insert an image. Any suggestions?

[donncadh]

Instead of inserting an image, I'll try an attachment. Let's see whether the two pictures arrive.

[rocklandpiano]

Willis & Co. was a Canadian piano company.[1] It was founded as a piano retailer in 1884 in Montreal, Quebec. The retail company became successful, and in 1907, they bought a controlling interest in the Lesage Piano Company, and started the manufacture of their own pianos under the name "Willis & Co.". These pianos became very successful, and at their peak they made close to 3000 pianos each year. The company was sold by the family in 1967, and went bankrupt and closed in 1979

[silverwoodpianos]

Thanks for the photos.

1.   Showing a European action with over dampers (wire sticker) commonly called a bird cage action.

2.   This instrument has no full plate; it is a three quarter plate ending at just above keyboard level.

3.   The metal rim extends above that and around the perimeter of the top of the pin block and is fastened to the block with a series of large slot screws that can be seen in this photo.

4.    The strings pass over a wooden agraffe bridge previous to being attached to the tuning pins and that wooden rail is grey coloured with Acheson Dag.

5.   This is a straight strung instrument most likely built previous to the first war.

6.    Because the instrument has been refinished and the cabinet modernized unless the name Willis is engraved or casted into the plate or found inside somewhere I would doubt its authenticity of being a Willis at all.

7.   This is not a Canadian made instrument but a European made instrument of some sort.


The cabinetry with the rounded corners and the plain utilitarian style reminds me of the fifties instruments made by Sir Wilfred Knight.

But the action and string work are old school from the previous century.
 

[donncadh]

What a catalogue of information from a specialist. To be able to see all that from a single photograph! I had heard of the 'bird cage", and you confirm that the system is used here.
I note that it is not Canadian: is there any possibility of a Willis branch or subsidiary in Europe, or even another firm with the same name? If the name, gilt-painted on the black, were not genuine, I'd imagine the perpetrator would have chosen a more prestigious name. A friend had a Bechstein upright, and that would have been more impressive. I was aware from the start that the name on the case would not impart any prestige when pianos were being compared.
I am planning to pass the instrument on to one of my children, whenever he has a house with enough room for it. I'll print out all your comments and attach them to the piano. Such information enriches it.

[silverwoodpianos]

Interesting to note that the wire sticker action inside your instrument was used in the piano manufacturing trade in the UK up to 1954, so this could be an English made instrument, refinished, and modernized in the cabinet work.

That would match up with timeline of having the instrument bought for you in the fifties.
  
I have confirmation of this from an independent source; I service a mid- fifties Challen grand here and it has a very old school action inside which fooled me on the age until such time as I looked at the piano atlas. This instrument is fitted with a grand action usually found in pianos from the turn of 1900.

Willis of Canada did not have a European outlet.  Also I know that those types of actions were never used in Canadian built uprights.

Regarding the name, there was a German maker Willis which also may have been more prestigious than the original name, but I agree a well know name would have been better.

But the downfall of using a well-known name such as Bechstein for example, would be more technicians would be familiar with the well-known name build type. Easy to spot a fake with a brand name like Bechstein.