5 Year Old Student broke down crying....

[keypeg]

Just a rare on-topic thought.

It isn't always a bad thing for a child to have a safe place to cry without fear of being judged for it. 

Totally agree.

[bernadette60614]

Another thought:

Our son takes lessons in guitar (after taking two years of lessons in recorder). My objective, and his objective, is not that he will become a professional guitarist...but that in the process of learning an instrument he will 1) have a lifelong relationship with music 2) learn through experience the value of persistence and practice.

I don't know how many here are parents, but my philosophy is:  Parent the child you have...and, by extension, teach the child you  have.  This 5 year old may be crying for any number of reasons...but to me, the question isn't "Is he crying for reasons I believe are valid...but how do I engage this child in such a way that he develops a lifelong relationship with music."

[nyiregyhazi]

Nier., you're making an awful lot of assumptions, and then building on them.  I'm done.

By all means list any false assumptions that I made, if you feel they are not accurate. Why vaguely allude, rather than correct any misapprehensions that you believe occurred? I went on things you stated, not on assumptions. If I made false assumptions, why did you not address them from the start and clarify the situation at the outset? You regularly complain of the folly of generalisation, but everything you stated applies IF and only IF you are dealing with a very specific and unusual type of child. You repeated this specific case over and over- without evidence that poster you addressed was dealing with such a child and without acknowledging that not everyone fits your specific blueprint for how you believe a child works. As I stated, I've seen even students who behave very enthusiastically and progress well during lessons, coming back week after week with no progress and often having gone backwards since a productive lesson. Not everyone fits your idealised blueprint for a child who acts like an intelligent adult. The majority don't. Pointing out the "consequence" that you described of the fact that they fail to improve as a result did not get them working better. Children in general do not act by analysing self-interest and you cannot presume any other case to be anything like the exceptional cases that your comments can be applied to. I find it plain baffling that you honestly think that such cases might be in any way normal. Such kids have been CONDITIONED to base actions on what they are told about self interest. This is not the norm and no child is born making decisions based on self-interest. Presumably you never heard of the experiment where the vast majority of children choose one piece of chocolate now over the chance to have two in five minutes. Those who successfully waited were the minority.

While it would be horrific to think of a teacher who berates children who have not understood something or who were on holiday (rather than first check the situation) if a kid won't practise week after week, smiling at them nicely and pointing out that it causes lack of progress is pointless. They have to want to avoid a far more uninviting consequence, or they'll do the same week after week (just as most kids wouldn't bother with homework, if teachers merely smiled at them and pointed out that it means less academic progress). Just because we don't want to treat kids like Victorians did, it doesn't mean that mildly unpleasant consequences for a lack of work (coupled with encouragement on other issues) are not frequently necessary. There's no way we can even begin to throw out discipline in favour of merely trying to reason with children about how practise creates progress.

[lostinidlewonder]

It is important to avoid circumstances where a student cries due to a negative emotional reaction within themselves. It is true that there are a whole lot of reasons for why they cry and as a teacher you need to work that out and encourage them so that you avoid the tears.

I have had a few young students who cry, one was because she always wanted to be able to do things correct straight away and got so angry/frustrated/down on herself when faced with challenges which could not be solved immediately it really made her feel lesser of herself. I would take care to compliment her first attempts and that it was a good first try and that no one can do it right the first go we all need to work at it.
      She only liked to show me one hand when learning a new piece but I encouraged her to do both hands even though it caused a lot more mistakes. The first time I insisted at attempting two hands she cried after a few minutes. When I found out how much she expected of herself I set about encouraging her and that if we can work hard with our difficulties it will make us so much better later on. I tried to let her realize that if everything is easy we never will learn, we need to challenge ourselves and make mistakes.

Doing this a number of times within a few pieces she got the idea and never cried again. Some children need to be explained that it is ok to have difficulties and it is ok not to be perfect immediately and that the teacher doesn't think lesser of the student because of these difficulties. Some do not know that it is ok because they do everything else with such measured success.

It isn't always a bad thing for a child to have a safe place to cry without fear of being judged for it. 

timothy42b you are really correct when you say the student should feel safe to show tears. Whenever I see a young student cry I relate my own story how frustrated I use to get with music it brought me to tears also. I empathize with them which I think is very important. Don't make them feel ashamed for crying. I say to students it is good that they are crying it shows that they really want to do well but are so *insert emotion* that they can't get it.

[bernadette60614]

If a 5 year old isn't practicing, I think the person to address this issue with is the parent.

Practicing, just like doing homework, is a learned skill. I'd ask:

Does he have a set practice routine so that when a certain time rolls around each day that is his "trigger" to practice.

Does he have a place where he can practice without distraction.

Is there a way to reward practicing.

Our son begins his homework everyday at 5 p.m. does guitar first for 15 minutes, then math, then reading.  He works for approximately one hour with a break at the mid-point.

Discussions about kids today vs. kids when we were growing up  can go on forever.However, it may be a simple (though touchy) matter of talking to the parents about establishing a daily practice routine.

[h_chopin148]

Thanks Mahler!

That's very interesting - something I should have known = since I had a relative that was a coal miner!
Yes - I guess looking at things like that - the expectations of kids don't seem as severe!

its also mentioned in the hunger games lol (canary in the coal mine)

[bronnestam]

He most definitely has ADHD, but because of a bad lifestyle of incessant TV watching. It can be overcome. The lessons are half an hour, though a few times I had to cut them short. His attention span is, however, increasing with every lesson. I think he is acclimating to someone forcing him to focus which is new for him. And you are certainly right: there is NOTHING more exhausting than studying music/playing the piano! The second I ask any student to exert REAL effort of any sort, they begin yawning haha -- not from boredom but because concentration drains one immediately! It happens to me, too, especially when I am trying to memorize (which is very taxing) or when I am analyzing music.

 

Now, stop this. I'm getting REALLY mad when I read this. You seem to have no idea whatsoever of what ADHD is. (My son has it, my daughter has not.)

First of all: ADHD IS NOT ACQUIRED BY WATCHING TV!!! It has NOTHING, NOTHING to do with your lifestyle. You are born with it. Period! I am so sick&tired of all these "knowing" parents who think my son's behaviour is the result of bad raising, of us parents not being good enough or strict enough or whatever enough we should have been. Truth is, that raising a kid with ADHD is about 10 times harder than raising a so called normal kid. I have both kinds here; I can tell the difference. There are ignorant people enough in this world; may anyone who reads this now be a bit less ignorant, ok?

On the other hand, children with ADHD often watch a lot of TV - because they have ADHD. They have an inner chaos and the TV helps them calming down a bit.

And from your description, yes, the child behaves just like my son did when he was at that age, so he might have it. Or he might not, it is impossible to tell. But no matter what, I can tell at once that this kid is not ready for piano lessons. His behaviour clearly says that he is too young for this.
Yes, we know the stories about those wonder kids who started playing Rondo Alla Turca before they had even get rid of their dipers and so on, and at the age of 12 they played Rach 3 and yada yada. This is so stupid.
IF the child is ready, yes, go ahead, help him. When I was five, I wanted to learn how to read. I asked my mother about the letters and I learned how to read in no time. Because I was ready! It was my time. But children are different and you are not "smarter" if you learn certain things at an early age, than if you have to wait much longer. Early potatoes are not better than late season potatoes, they both taste good, they are just different.

It is pure insanity to give a 5-year old lessons if he is not ready for it. Tell the parents that he should go and play with his friends instead, that will probably be of much more use to him. He might be ready when he is 10. Or 20. Or 40. Don't  take it too seriously when he says "I want to play the piano!" if he at the same time does everything to stop you from teaching. He probably wants to play that he is playing, he does not want to learn for real. Not yet.

So tell the parents that this child needs no lessons right now. Expose him to the environment, let him hear music, sing with him, let him watch other people play, let him sit at the piano and do whatever he likes there (as long as he is not damaging the piano, of course), and the day he really IS ready, he will learn quickly and have a good foundation to build upon. Or force him to have lessons that will make the teacher irritated and bring HIM to tears as he feels the frustration AND the teacher's (don't imagine for a moment that he does not sense this) and you have prepared him well for a life with bad self esteem and a solid hatred for playing the piano.  



 

[timothy42b]

+1, bronnestam, good post

[bernadette60614]

I'm multiples of 5 and I've felt like crying at some lessons...

But, going back to reading this thread someone asked: What is happening in our schools?  This 5 year old may not be receiving a full day of schooling, but something which is happening in schools is constant testing.  Kids are tested, teachers are evaluated based upon test scores, schools are closed if testing shows they are underperforming.

I know a number of parents who have their kids in pre-preschool (which sounds like it must be in vitro), others who have their kids in a constant array of classes and enrichment programs so they can ace their private school admissions playground.

In a replyto one of my many questions (which people have been gracious in answering) someone said that we are trained in school to believe that there is a right and a wrong answer...but that in learning how to play the piano (a hobbyist) or become a pianist (a musician, albeit amateur) there is a continual shaping process going on.

To me, the outcome of lessons for a child should be learning how to play an instrument AND to take joy in playing the instrument.

It may also be that this child is feeling what other adults here have expressed:  Feeling intimidated by his teacher and fearful of making a "mistake".  Perhaps simply sayiing:  "Mistakes are part of learning...if you aren't making mistakes, you're not learning" would help him.

[keyofc]

Bernadette,
Great points!

I tell my students that some composers made so many mistakes that they had to put a bucket underneath the piano to catch them.    People like that.

When kids are crying, though - I take it seriously - unless I know that they are supersensitive.
I still take it seriously though - sensitivity is a great gift - and I try to get them to use it for the music.

But if parents are not told about it - I think that is very risky. We don't know what just might have happened at school.  We have no idea.  With all the kids bullying each other online - parents are often clueless as to what is going on. 
If you're the parent - then you should make the judgment call.  But I feel that as a piano teacher - my boundaries end when I sense a problem that might be more than scales.

I don't make a big deal of it -in front of the student - I just talk to the parent on the side.
They may have no idea the student is under so much pressure as they drive them from activity to activity.
I want them to know that I care and that I defer to them when it comes to anything outside of music.
Just my thoughts today - !