Help with Chopin oom pah pahs

[slobone]

I'm working on the Chopin Waltz Op 34 #1, and right on the second page there's a section where the left hand plays an Eb and the jumps up to play two chords on 2 and 3, several times in a row. Very common pattern in Chopin. I've never really mastered this kind of thing, because I have trouble jumping back and forth with the left hand, while still landing on the right notes. Also I have a little arthritis in my left shoulder that I don't want to aggravate. What's the best way to practice this so I can keep my shoulder relaxed, but still get the chords right?

[wnlqxod]

1. Practice chords and arpeggios- these will give you the fingering memory that you can call upon when needed.
2. Practice them SLOWLY, SLOWLY, slowly getting faster, like Count von Count's song. When you're playing it too fast for your own body, it sounds sloppy, and it really doesn't feel "smooth" under your fingers either. So, slow it down, and SLOWLY, SLOWLY, SLOWLY GET IT FASTER.
3. Play the accompaniment SOFTLY- this is not only for the music (i.e. let the melody shine), it is also for your muscles (i.e. facilitate relaxation and improve endurance).
4. Do not use your shoulder to bring up your hand.
5. The lower you sit, the more conscious you must be about having your wrist "up".
6. Have some fun whiplashing your wrist about the keys. (Move your wrist )

[slobone]

Thanks for responding, that sounds like good advice. I think I'll tackle them again tomorrow, and report back if I make any progress. I should add that the whole piece is full of this pattern, it's not just the second page. One of the reasons I've avoided Chopin Waltzes, also Scott Joplin, for most of my life.

[ade16]

I would agree with all that advice. Additionally, try practising the jump from a bass note to the required finger positions for the chord, positioning the chosen fingers above the notes without actually playing them. In this way you will soon get used to being in precisely the right place, then practise by actually playing the notes. Then alternate these approaches. You will soon get the hang of this and your hand will soon get used to being in the right place at the right time without hitting any wrong notes. Be sure though that you are very clear which specific fingers should be where; this approach will not work if you keep changing the fingerings, this will only add more confusion. This approach really works, for either hand, when there is any moderately large or very large leap involved. I know this Chopin Waltz well and fully understand the problem, and this technique generally works if you persist with it. Beethoven's Op.13 sonata 'Pathetique' first movement, has a technical problem whereby the right hand has to jump over the left and back again, repeatedly, as the second subject theme is alternately divided between treble and bass. This practise technique will work for that too, and in numerous other situations where leaps are involved and there is a danger of hitting wrong notes. Like many other things, hitting the right notes every time after a leap becomes a trained reflex without undue physical strain. Everytime you subsequently meet a similar 'leap issue' in other pieces, you will eventually become increasingly proficient as it starts to become second nature, just like playing scale passages, Alberti basses at speed etc.etc.etc. I hope this is clear and helps. Good luck with the Chopin, great piece to perform! It always brings the house down! 

[cacophonix]

Have a look at this link:

https://practisingthepiano.com/?p=1205
 
Hope this helps.

[slobone]

Thanks for that link, I'm going to try it and see if it helps. But interestingly, I realized yesterday that it isn't the jumps to the upper chords that I'm having the most trouble with, it's the jump back to the low notes on the first beat. Probably because I can't really see what my left hand is doing down there, if I have to focus on the right hand at the same time.

As I continue to work on this waltz, I'm also confirming what I already knew -- that really learning the notes mentally is the most important thing. If you know exactly what note is coming next, it makes it a lot easier to hit it correctly on the first try. Obvious I guess but worth emphasizing. In the case of left hand jumps, I actually think it's worth memorizing them so you can look at the keyboard instead of the music.

[j_menz]

In the case of left hand jumps, I actually think it's worth memorizing them so you can look at the keyboard instead of the music.

The keyboard doesn't move, you know. Master the geography. There are planty of pieces where your theory won't work, because you need to look at both hands and can't because they are at opposite ends of the piano.

[dima_76557]

I realized yesterday that it isn't the jumps to the upper chords that I'm having the most trouble with, it's the jump back to the low notes on the first beat. Probably because I can't really see what my left hand is doing down there, if I have to focus on the right hand at the same time.

Change your idea of choreography. Solving this kind of problems is clever planning. Try thinking like this: The jumps are from left to right only. The starting bass note of a group of "jumps" is very much prepared (you are just there in time), and not the result of a jump at risk. Take some deliberate pause between groups of jumps to realize that, and the problem will solve itself without you trying too much.

Also: think "thumb", not "pinky". This reduces the perception of distance significantly for both hands.

Also about using your eyes: whenever there are such spots in the music where there is risk of missing for both hands (e.g. Chopin Scherzo no. 2), quickly estimate the left hand note(s) in the corner of your eye and then LET IT GO and fix your eyes on the needed keys for the right hand (if you have to).

[slobone]

That's a good point about needing to look at both hands. And yes, I need to get to the point where my left arm automatically knows just how far to move for each jump. I think the problem is I've avoided pieces like this for years precisely because I had such difficulties with them. So now I'm paying for my neglect.