Beethoven Sonata Op 2 no 1 - tempo in the "Adagio" movement

[porcupine]

I am working on Beethoven's Op 2 No 1 in F minor as part of my "32 Adventures" project (see https://thirtytwoadventures.wordpress.com/) and have been looking closely at the Adagio. I would welcome any thoughts on the tempo of this movement. So far, I have been simply "playing it through" rather roughly, but I need now to work more seriously on it, and I feel that getting the tempo right is quite tricky in a slow movement like this one. There are many demisemiquaver passages which might sound rushed if the tempo is too fast, and yet taking too slow a tempo runs the risk of destroying the 3/4 metre. I'd be interested in hearing any opinions on this issue, as I've had similar dilemmas before when trying to establish a suitable tempo - and it always seems to  be the slow pieces which cause me the most trouble!

[j_menz]

I find that the slower the movement, the more the pace you should go is dictated by the sound of the piano. If it's relatively bright with a fast decay, you need to go quite a bit faster than if it's mellow and the notes hang around.

My suggestion is to find the point where the pulse doesn't break and go a little faster than that.

[porcupine]

I find that the slower the movement, the more the pace you should go is dictated by the sound of the piano. If it's relatively bright with a fast decay, you need to go quite a bit faster than if it's mellow and the notes hang around.

My suggestion is to find the point where the pulse doesn't break and go a little faster than that.

Thanks - that has given me food for thought because I was probably approaching this from more of a theoretical angle than I should be. The practical consideration of the tonal character of the piano being used is not something that had crossed my mind, but you're right - it is definitely a factor. I only have quite a small house, and therefore my piano is a smallish, fairly modern, upright. About a year ago I toyed with the idea of buying a grand piano (though not a full size one), but although I tried a few out I couldn't make a decision and so decided to stick with the upright for a bit longer. So all my practising is being done on this instrument. However, the final performances of each phase of my "32 Adventures" project will be played and recorded on a Steinway grand.
I've been trying to avoid comparing my own performances with ones by established pianists as I am intending to formulate my own interpretations. There's a fine line between seeking inspiration from a great practitioner such as Brendel or Ashkenazy and slavishly copying someone else's interpretation. But I confess I listened to Barenboim's performance of this movement on YouTube this evening, and found it re-assuring that I have been adopting pretty much the same tempo as he does. (Not that I'm suggesting I'm anywhere near Barenboim as a pianist!!)
 

[maestro57]

Off topic, but I noticed you wrote in your blog that you had prepared your "three volumes" of the sonatas. I've never heard of them being separated into three volumes before - usually two. I'm curious to know which publisher this is 

[j_menz]

Off topic, but I noticed you wrote in your blog that you had prepared your "three volumes" of the sonatas. I've never heard of them being separated into three volumes before - usually two. I'm curious to know which publisher this is 

There are several of them out there. One such is the ABRSM edition.

https://www.musicroom.com/se/id_no/016266/details.html

[porcupine]

Yep - mine is indeed the three-volume Associated Board edition, edited by Harold Craxton and Donald Tovey (who wrote the commentary) which I bought in 1976!

[virtuoso80]

How much of a historian are you trying to be? In other words, are you looking for the authentic tempo Beethoven would have used? It doesn't sound like you are too interested in that, so basically you're asking what works.

My hybrid answer is that the early sonatas IMO sound better without extreme Romantic gestures, ie don't go crazy slow or hyper-expressive. As for the fast passages, I find it has more to do with keeping the feel of the slow pulse in your mind, and gaining enough proficiency with the notes to play them lightly and without having to 'push' too much. A fast trill doesn't destroy the feel of a slow tempo, right? Think of these figures similarly - as flourishes.

[porcupine]

@virtuoso80
Yes - you're right, I'm suppose I AM seeking opinions on what other players think what works best on a modern piano, but without completely disregarding what is historically accurate. You might say you can't have it both ways given that a piano in Beethoven's time was a fairly different animal in both compass and resonance from a modern instrument.
I agree entirely that the early sonatas need to be less "dramatic" than the later ones, with fewer extremes of dynamics etc. I'm also a big fan of the sonatas of Haydn and Mozart, and I'm used to playing with an emphasis on the sort of classical elegance and delicacy required. In the Op 2 No 1 Sonata I have been trying to bring something of that style to the performance.
In the blog I describe how I sometimes go "off piste" just for fun, and do crazy things with dynamics, tempo and articulation. The music is more tolerant of this abuse than you might think! However, when I am playing the pieces "seriously" I would always be mindful of accepted performance practice.