¿What microphone should work best?

[lighthand045]

Hi, new to Pianostreet here, kinda familiar with some because i have been reading the forum but i did not have an account. Anyway, I am looking to record my performances and compositions best, but i am not satisfied with the cellphone sound  .

I would like some advice on mics, either brands, or types, etc.

I would be happy to share some recordings with you.

I have an upright piano by the way, and i live in Mexico so isnt easy to get stuff, but anyway, i would like some advice. 

[andreslr6]

Va a ser raro hablarte en inglés, pero para que no haya quejas luego del lenguaje ...

I'm not an expert in mics but...

I live in Tj and got mine in Guitar Center in San Diego, the guy in the store recommended me these ones https://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/sm/sm57-instrument-microphone, I have an upright piano too and I've seen those and other Shure mics in Liverpool.  

I'm not really sure which microphone type, or if the Sm57, is the most suitable for an acoustic piano so wait for more responses on that question (I want to know other opinions as well), but I've seen a couple of guys in Youtube that use 2 of the sm57s for both upright and baby grand/grand pianos.

[johnmar78]

i use 2 AKG's mics for my grand. This is mor ethan enough compared to Video camera built in mics.

[lighthand045]

Haha, andreslr6,pues es un fourm dominado por ingles, pero no importa, asi practico mas.

Thanks for recommendations, my uncle lives in Tijuana so theres not problem getting a mic.

i use 2 AKG's mics for my grand. This is mor ethan enough compared to Video camera built in mics.

I am not familiar with AKG mics, just headphones, and i dont know where i could get them, I heard Sennheiser mics are very good, Ive seen the evolution series, and i saw the e614 and they have a freq response of 40-20000 Hz, but Im not sure if they could actually have a good sound(dont know much about mics).

One last question: Are programs like Audacity good to improve the recording quality?

[quantum]

Hi and welcome to Pianostreet,

Personally I would stay away from 57's or 58's for piano.  If you are on a budget there are more appropriate piano mics in that price range.  

If you are a classical player, such music usually prefers the least amount of post-recording tweaking as possible.  Recorded classical music tends towards a natural as-you-hear-it sound.  A lot of the work in classical recording focuses on mic/pre selection and stereo techniques.  

If you are a pop or jazz player, such music tends to use more post tweaking.  

Audacity is a fine program, and is a good choice for those wishing to get their feet wet in more serious recording.  

The frequency range for a piano is approximately 27.5 Hz for the lowest A, to 4186 Hz for the highest C.  This in no way accounts for overtones.  Pay attention to the lower number when looking at mics, as not all go down that low. 

Thread I created when I was on my own microphone search:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,10124.0.html

Piano recording recipe:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,9818.0.html

Piano Recording article:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/articles/pianorecording_0108.htm

[lighthand045]

Thanks quantum for your informative reply.
I believed that using a program like Audacity, or else, would improve the quality of the recording.

I used a microphone a year ago , I think it was a Shure, dont remember correctly, recorded the Etude Op.8 No.12 by Scriabin with it, dont have the recording now, but i played a very crappy upright so it didnt sound very well, but i was satisfied with its sound.

I think i will continue my search, thanks for the links.

[quantum]

The best thing to do to improve the quality of the recorded sound is to use equipment and techniques that are appropriate for the music being recorded.  It is far easier to spend a bit of time searching for the right mic and using appropriate mic placement, then it is to continually try to correct for inadequacies in the recorded sound after the fact. 

If all you did was a straight capture of the sound and a direct output to mp3, CD, or DVD video, it really doesn't matter what software you use.  If you set up the same gear with the same mic positions and the same sample/bit rate, and recorded in Audacity, Sonar, Cubase, Protools, Ardour or what have you, the music would not sound any different from one program to the next.  Where the software comes in is with editing, tweaking the sound and post production.  It is the options in workflow and post where these programs differ. 

Audacity should offer most if not all of the things you need.  What you may be interested in for a recording such as the Scriabin Etude you mention are: making snips (cutting out silence at the beginning and end), splicing (for patching together multiple takes), and perhaps a bit of convolution reverb (when you may be recording in unfavorable acoustic environments, such as a living room).  Audacity should do all of this.  If you are doing demo CD's for auditions or competitions they prefer single-take unedited recordings, so you won't even go that far with post. 

I've heard good things about the Shure KSM 141.  They are a dual-pattern cardioid and omni.  Haven't personally tested them though. 

[lighthand045]

Thanks quantum, I'll keep that in mind.

By the way, was just hearing your recordings, and I like them very much, heard the Scriabin etude, and the Sonata 5. Love your tone.

[sirpazhan]

I use 1 AKG C414 (many variation of this mic.. any 414 will work great) and 1 AEA R84 Ribbon mic...

Ive used 2 AKG 414's like the user above.. but I found it lacking a little depth (just a personal taste,, AKG's are incredible mics)... for the bass, I substituted one of the condensers with a big ribbon .. you'd need to experiment with the position of the mics in finding the sweet spot.  

I keep the ribbon over the bass.. and the AKG a foot over and a foot outside the treble side of the piano.  

AKG's will set you back 1 grand ea (used go for 5-700).  and so will the AEA R84 (close to 1,000).. so with a full stereo setup,, cables, etc.. you're looking at clean $2,200+  

[indianajo]

I bought a shure KSM27 used for $80. I have been looking for a good affordable piano mike for 40 years, this is pretty close.  You see these as a central band mike on television shows where they don't individually mike the instruments. A KSM27 is mainly useful in an environment where there is not a lot of audience or traffic noise to mess up the sound.
I don't recommend Shure SM57 or SM58 for piano. The SM57 is primarily used as a drum mike for its ability to take huge close pressure peaks, the SM58 is the standard super cardiod mike for vocal performance in an electric environment, and is useful only as a vocal mike.   
A pro on diyaudio.com told me he used two AT4033's or higher number mikes taped to the bottom of his grand piano, but this was probably in a studio environment where there would be pickup of the other musician's instruments on an area mike.
The high school I went to used Neumann's, but these are running $1000 each in a beat to death by the studio condition on Nashville craigslist, so I won't bother.  Great mike, condition has to be horrible to end up on craigslist. One was even advertised for sale without the capsule (electret).   
The PC recording program I bought (ensoniq) is now obsolete with the death of the ISA bus in PC's, so I am trying to get the PC recording function going.  Pity there is no way to publicly share 1/4" magnetic tape recordings; that process was so much easier and the equipment was so much more reliable than PC's.  Any PC over 4 years old is subject to sudden blowups, but it is either that, an auto-level VHS recorder, or a ***-**** cell phone.  All you cell phone recorders out there, don't bother, I've heard one cell phone performance and that was enough.  I'm not listening.  Cell phone mikes are okay maybe if your instrument is the paper kazoo.  Same goes for MP3 format, the cassette tape of the 21st century.  

[thepianist09]

https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/articles/pianorecording_0108.htm

Read this, it is a very good article.

It all depends on how much money you are willing to spend or the access you have to good microphones.

The ones I use are Neumanns, which cost a few hundred pounds each. I was lucky that a friend who runs a recording studio had bought 2 new ones, then 2 even better but far too expensive ones, and was looking to sell the Neumanns. I bought both for the handsome sum of £100, far cheaper than the real value. I was very lucky we were friends.

Back from the tangent, the Neumanns are fantastic and I have never had a problem with them. They provide a fantastic sound.