Execution of rolled chords

[lukediv]

Hi everybody,

Im just wondering about the execution of rolled chords in both hands at the same time. Im currently working of Rach's prelude in D major and there are a few spots where there are big chords to be rolled in both hands at the same time, and was just wondering if they are to be rolled up the piano, so roll the left hand and keep going, hitting no notes together, or rolled at the same time and finishing at the same time?

Here is a picture of one of the chords.

[ajspiano]

Firstly, I usually consider such things a personal preference.

Secondly, I usually assume that if the composer wanted a fluent roll from LH to RH up the keyboard then he/she should mark the roll across the entire grand staff, rather than 2 markings on separate staffs.

Finally, in this example you have 2 distinct concepts of melody and accompaniment, and its romantic style repertoire..  It would not be unreasonable even to take the RH first, and land the first note of the LH roll at the same time as the last of the RH. Pushing the melody forward or backward in time (separate from the idea of time for the LH) is an option dependent on the desired effect. Not something that should necessarily be executed in the same way each time it appears either.

[lukediv]

Thanks for the your reply asj,

So you don't think it would be bending the rules too much to do some rolled as you explained (leading with the right hand) and some a different way?

some lend themselves to different variations regarding execution i think.

The only reason i ask is because it is for an exam, (and currently can't afford a lesson haha), and don't wish to learn it incorrectly

Cheers,

[awesom_o]

Why don't you just do it the way you think sounds the best?

[danhuyle]

In the context of this Rachmaninoff Prelude, I play the upper note in the left hand together with the right hand. Or the other way could work where you play the right note together with the lowest note in the chord. I think this comes down to preference.

In Liszt La Campanella, in the first 40 seconds or so, I've always played the last note of the rolled chord together with the right hand notes.

It's very rare to do a rolled chord where you play the 1st note together. The only time I have done it is the diminished chord in La Campanella ascending chromatic where you do the 23 interlock leading up to the trill variation of the main theme.

Let's say you were executing the rolled chords in Chopin Etude Op10 No8, I play the 1st and last notes of those chords together. As long as I hit the 1st and last notes together, it's 1 way to execute those rolled chords.

That's how I execute rolled chords. Someone else have an input on this.

[lukediv]

Why don't you just do it the way you think sounds the best?

i was just seeing how other people would tackle it and try a few different ways out.

[ajspiano]

So you don't think it would be bending the rules too much to do some rolled as you explained (leading with the right hand) and some a different way?

Not at all, but that particular execution is quite climactic and strongly highlights the high B as the melody in context with the harmony, which fits with the preceding rit and the a tempo at that bar.. however, if you are observing the pp, and the climax that will be upon you shortly (the very rachmaninov fat chords that are coming up) then it may not be totally ideal..   

alternatively, if you push forward the LH, and let the RH linger behind, especially that top B, you get a different feel. In that version of events, if you time the RH first note (G) with the LH (E) you draw the listeners attention to a fading transition to the Em harmony as if that is the main point and end of the line fading away before the next entry..  rather than the first beat of that bar being the beginning of a new line.

some lend themselves to different variations regarding execution i think.

definitely.

..

I provide no guarentees that my or your opinion on the various possibilities will be in line with your examiners.

[ajspiano]

Don't get too hung up on what is "correct" in anyone elses eyes.

Try to dig into rach's brain and find what he thought was most important idea at the given moment and bring that out.. 

don't see that as being overly focused on exactly what the composer truly meant as if its not up to you, you're reading what he left behind (the notation) as if its a fairly subjective piece of english, and deciding on how you personally choose to interpret the words.

[nyiregyhazi]

Hi everybody,

Im just wondering about the execution of rolled chords in both hands at the same time. Im currently working of Rach's prelude in D major and there are a few spots where there are big chords to be rolled in both hands at the same time, and was just wondering if they are to be rolled up the piano, so roll the left hand and keep going, hitting no notes together, or rolled at the same time and finishing at the same time?

Here is a picture of one of the chords.

personally I play the top of the left hand between the r. h. e and b. I don't find it very expressive to land the melody exactly with the right, so this is like a freer approximation to that. because the two notes are not competing for the ear's attention, you can get a clear sense of both the triplet beginning and the melodic note floating on top.

[nyiregyhazi]

In the context of this Rachmaninoff Prelude, I play the upper note in the left hand together with the right hand. Or the other way could work where you play the right note together with the lowest note in the chord. I think this comes down to preference.

In Liszt La Campanella, in the first 40 seconds or so, I've always played the last note of the rolled chord together with the right hand notes.

It's very rare to do a rolled chord where you play the 1st note together. The only time I have done it is the diminished chord in La Campanella ascending chromatic where you do the 23 interlock leading up to the trill variation of the main theme.

Let's say you were executing the rolled chords in Chopin Etude Op10 No8, I play the 1st and last notes of those chords together. As long as I hit the 1st and last notes together, it's 1 way to execute those rolled chords.

That's how I execute rolled chords. Someone else have an input on this.

personally I almost always strive to have some level of displacement in melodic writing. for me, that would be a little heavy for op. 10 no 8. I agree in the case of la campanella, but older generation pianists especially rarely land a melodic note precisely on a beat, after having done the spread before (except in very rhythmic writing). expressive spreads regularly start at the beat, or start before yet only approximate to landing onto it. landing squarely onto a beat in both hands is often too heavy and anti - melodic.

[louispodesta]

I am memorizing the 3rd movement of the Rach 2nd, and I just noticed something in my Boosey & Hawkes score.  At number 32 "Meno Mosso", the first chord is a first inversion E Flat Major.

The rolled chord line is continuous from top to bottom indicating that the roll starts at the bottom and continues all the way to the last soprano note.

What that says to me is that when there are two sets of rolled chord lines on the same chord then each roll starts on its own.

Just an observation because Boosey was the official publisher of this man's music.