What to do with my angry teacher?

[bernadette60614]

I am an adult piano student with an excellent teacher.

However, she tends to be very stern and can become angry if she feels that I'm taking too long with a piece.

Should I just accept comments like, e.g., "I've told you this before." and "I can't believe you haven't finished this yet". or say something.

I am diligent with practice, but some weeks are simply more productive than others.

[j_menz]

Bernadette, you've been complaining here about this aspect of your teacher's behaviour since you joined 6 months ago. In that time you have received a range of advice, from "suck it up" to "change teachers" to ways of broaching the matter with your teacher.

You appear unwilling or unable to do any of these things. What else, exactly, are you expecting from us?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Oh come on that's nothing!!!  My teacher swears at me and no matter what I do I can never make him happy.

Or you could just change teachers.

[senanserat]

Honestly, my teacher is demanding and he can be quite stern if he feels I am not catching something he deems easy.

While in one hand you're not supposed to be able to catch everything at the first try, have in mind that they cannot be overly complacent and boost your morale at every chance. After all humans grow and thrive under pressure or crack, I assume she just want to forge a good character out of you.

[outin]

Honestly, my teacher is demanding and he can be quite stern if he feels I am not catching something he deems easy.

In such a case stern is fine, angry is not...
But I don't think a teacher should ever evaluate their student's efforts according to what they personally find easy.

I assume she just want to forge a good character out of you.

That may work with children but with adults it's a bit too late

@Bernadette
It may be your teacher simply has a bit of a temper issue (or lack of manners)...not the best thing to have as a teacher, but if otherwise a good teacher then I wouldn't mind...mine has a much more refined way of showing disapproval (usually when I complain too much during lessons)...her tone tells me that I am being a prat (with good reason I guess

On the other hand if you practice as much as you can, then no teacher should be angry at you. Especially if her demands cause such pressure that is not productive anymore (practicing pieces that are too difficult, going too fast, getting frustrated or sloppy), then I am not sure if she's the right teacher for you. You must decide this on your own. I'm sure you can find a teacher who is more gentle if you need one.

[senanserat]

Exactly! This conclave agrees you should change teacher if the problem runs so deep.

[bernadette60614]

Good questions.

Here's my issue:

She's a great teacher in the sense that she is pushing me to a level beyond what I thought I could ever achieve.  In our months together, I've gone from some of the simpler Bach Two Part Inventions to a Beethoven sonata (albeit an easier movement) and the 2nd Schubert Impromtu, Opus 90.

That's the good part and whatever she is doing...she's moving me forward.

When she's happy with me, it is awesome...but when she's unhappy with me, she can be cutting.

The question is:  How can I continue with her and either 1) get her to be less cutting or 2) just suck it up, not let it get to me.

Thanks!

[asiantraveller101]

The question is:  How can I continue with her and either 1) get her to be less cutting or 2) just suck it up, not let it get to me.
Thanks!

My thoughts:
1. Her "cutting" is probably indirectly propelling you forward. What you deem as harsh, may actually be the whip that is making you work harder.
2. You can talk to her about it. Communicate your thoughts to her, assuring her that you will work as well without the harshness. Give yourself a few months, and if you find yourself slacking, then you need to tell her to reinstate the "cutting."
3. "Sucking it up" is also part of learning experience. It is good to develop a thicker skin. I think it helps me to be stronger person and not to take things too personally, but more as a challenge for me to work harder. Tell yourself and prepare mentally that she is NOT attacking you as a person, but the quality of your work. I rather have an opinionated teacher that will "whip me into shape", than one that is nice and says "good" all the time.
(An analogy: just look at how the gymnast teachers train their kids...all that screaming and yelling....)

[bernadette60614]

I think you're onto something.

She's Russian and her mother was a piano teacher. From what she has said on occasion, learning from her mother was no picnic. Then, it seems that she went into the "system", which was more of the screaming and humiliation approach to teaching.

I'm not a child and I don't need to be verbally beaten up to work.  Hmm, maybe I simply need to say:  Thank you. I'll work on that (and variations of this)...cause what she may be trying to do it so motivate me with harsh methods which I really not necessary for a grown-up.

(She has also said that she is surprised my childhood teacher let me quit since I'm one of the 4 o 5 of her 50 students who actually seem to work.)

[quantum]

I'm not a child and I don't need to be verbally beaten up to work.  

Why not just tell her this, just like you wrote above.  If you don't want to be verbally beaten up, then say so.  Why would you say thank you to a verbal beating, if the verbal beating is exactly what you don't want?  Be upfront and frank.

[outin]

(She has also said that she is surprised my childhood teacher let me quit since I'm one of the 4 o 5 of her 50 students who actually seem to work.)

It seems where she comes from a child would have no choice. I also quit as a child but now I voluntarily work harder on "just a hobby" than most people I know...

Some people do well with inner motivation, but not at all with outside pressure. This may be difficult to understand for someone who comes from a system where one doesn't have a choice. And in my experience people like that are a minority, most people do better when told what to do.

Still, I doubt you can make her change, so if it keeps bothering you and a discussion won't help, you could probably find another teacher who pushes you, but without such harsh manners. I've found one.

[asiantraveller101]

Why not just tell her this, just like you wrote above.  If you don't want to be verbally beaten up, then say so.  Why would you say thank you to a verbal beating, if the verbal beating is exactly what you don't want?  Be upfront and frank.

Exactly,communicate with her!

[hfmadopter]

I think you're onto something.

She's Russian and her mother was a piano teacher. From what she has said on occasion, learning from her mother was no picnic. Then, it seems that she went into the "system", which was more of the screaming and humiliation approach to teaching.

I'm not a child and I don't need to be verbally beaten up to work.  Hmm, maybe I simply need to say:  Thank you. I'll work on that (and variations of this)...cause what she may be trying to do it so motivate me with harsh methods which I really not necessary for a grown-up.

(She has also said that she is surprised my childhood teacher let me quit since I'm one of the 4 o 5 of her 50 students who actually seem to work.)

Since she is Russian then you either need to accept her as she is or move on. Russian women can be tuff, it's just how it is. I suspect it's exactly as you say, that's her way off pushing you and it's not personal at all. But if you don't like it or can't accept that, it's her studio, so you are the one who needs to move on. When her attacks get personal then you have reason to take issue with her directly. Meanwhile you are progressing, that's the good news.

[keypeg]

She's a great teacher in the sense that she is pushing me to a level beyond what I thought I could ever achieve.  In our months together, I've gone from some of the simpler Bach Two Part Inventions to a Beethoven sonata (albeit an easier movement) and the 2nd Schubert Impromtu, Opus 90.

Getting someone to play difficult music, i.e. "pushing" does not make a teacher great.  It depends if they can also teach.  A "pushed" student might try everything they can to play pieces beyond their level.  Well heck, I can do that myself without a teacher too.  Just find something hard and try and try to play it.  Is there teaching going on?

[ajspiano]

Getting someone to play difficult music, i.e. "pushing" does not make a teacher great.  It depends if they can also teach.  A "pushed" student might try everything they can to play pieces beyond their level.  Well heck, I can do that myself without a teacher too.  Just find something hard and try and try to play it.  Is there teaching going on?

I'm not really sure in this situation of course but I feel like it might be bit bold to assume there isn't teaching going on..

Part of the teachers job can be to recognize what the student is capable of and push them to achieve it, even when it may be beyond what the student thinks they can achieve.

If the student achieves the harder material within a reasonable time frame, then either they got the necessary teaching to tackle the difficulties, or the difficulties were not as far beyond the student as the student thought.

....

I'm not disagreeing with you of course, one must gauge what value you are getting from the teacher, but its possible to teach something by guiding a student to a conclusion by presenting certain material..  and the something may be to have faith in their ability to tackle material of a certain level.

[louispodesta]

If I had a dollar for every time my wife (three degrees, and two professional certificates) came home from some department store, after having been jerked around by some twit, and said:  do you know what I should have said to her?" I would be immensely wealthy.

The reason the female gender gets jerked around more than the male, usually by other females, is that they put up with it.

The two best teachers I ever had NEVER raised their voice during a lesson.  They were always analytical in their approach and constructive in their criticism.

Finally, I have had my fill of this garbage of thinking that studying under some Russian abusive witch is a legitimate way to teach piano, much less anything else.  It is straight up and down abuse, and should never be tolerated.

Under any other circumstance would you ever pay people money to yell at you?  Of course, you wouldn't, and you should not be doing it here.

Move on, and if you can, find someone with a Taubman/Golandsky background in technique.  Their professionalism will astound you.

[bernadette60614]

Okay, the hunt is on.

What has convinced me...finally...is how I have avoided the piano for the last two weeks.  Not because I fear the work (I actually love the work), I dread the inevitable battering of the lessons.

My city has about 15 teachers who are members of the music teachers' association...so now the hunt begins.

Thanks all!

[ranniks]

My teacher is sometimes like that too, and it gets frustrating when it happens. I mean, of course it's easy for you, you're a professional pianist, not me, that's why I'm learning from you.

[cabbynum]

I'm a springboard diver as well as playing piano, my teacher is great for piano.


My diving coach is terrible, seeks every chance to humiliate me and put me down and he scores me lower on purpose in meets and he has even told me I won't amount to anything with piano because its just useless endeavor.

Sadly there are no other coaches in the area. So I have to suck it up and deal with him. I've been diving long enough that I can tell by how it feels in the air what I need to fix. So if you can learn the notes correctly all she can get mad about is the interpretation. You should be able to get the notes. That's like the jump off a diving board.

Either get a new teacher or have a serious talk with your current teacher

[louispodesta]

Okay, the hunt is on.

What has convinced me...finally...is how I have avoided the piano for the last two weeks.  Not because I fear the work (I actually love the work), I dread the inevitable battering of the lessons.

My city has about 15 teachers who are members of the music teachers' association...so now the hunt begins.

Thanks all!

Congratulations!!  And, when you seek out the next teacher, do something you would never think of doing.  That is: interview them, and not vice versa.  Hey, you are the consumer, and not only do you have to be good enough for them, they also have to be good enough for you!

Earl Wild used to tell the story of how when he was four years old, he had this horrible old man for a teacher who used to smoke cigars during his lessons.  Well, one day, Earl Wild stopped playing in the middle of a piece, looked at the old man, and said: "well, I have had enough of you."  He walked out and then walked home.

[bronnestam]

I wouldn't dream of spending my money and time on a teacher who did not give me what I wanted. I mean, of course I don't expect miracles from this poor person, I am responsible for my own development ... but I come to my lessons with the material I have chosen, and I say "I need help with this and that" and so she helps me. And of course she also gives suggestions. But if I did not find this useful and enjoyable, I would quit at once.

Well ... so far I have just looooved my piano lessons, my teacher is a very nice person and we have never been able to keep the scheduled lesson of one hour. Instead we look at the watch and say "oops - now it's more than two hours again". 

[dima_76557]

@ bernadette60614

You need to find a teacher who instills "Love for what you do", so making music can become a thing you can't live without. Teachers like the ones you describe instill something else: "Any results other than excellent, and you have no right to even exist". This is a very destructive mindset for many. Run away as fast as you can!

[keypeg]

Getting someone to play difficult music, i.e. "pushing" does not make a teacher great.  It depends if they can also teach.  A "pushed" student might try everything they can to play pieces beyond their level.  Well heck, I can do that myself without a teacher too.  Just find something hard and try and try to play it.  Is there teaching going on?

I'm not really sure in this situation of course but I feel like it might be bit bold to assume there isn't teaching going on..

What I was saying did not come across.  I was saying that pushing, in and of itself, does not prove good teaching.  The problem with the quote feature on PianoStreet is that the thing quote doesn't appear in the post.

[keypeg]

.

[ranniks]

*Nvm*

[louispodesta]

Okay, the hunt is on.

What has convinced me...finally...is how I have avoided the piano for the last two weeks.  Not because I fear the work (I actually love the work), I dread the inevitable battering of the lessons.

My city has about 15 teachers who are members of the music teachers' association...so now the hunt begins.

Thanks all!

I proffer two quick suggestions, which are 1) when you are interviewing for a new teacher, ask them what books on technique that they have recommended in the past, AND what authorities they are currently studying now.  All good teachers are continual students of piano pedagogy, without exception (Nobody has all of the answers).

And 2) get on with it and don't pay any attention to any further posts!
 

[keypeg]

I proffer two quick suggestions, which are 1) when you are interviewing for a new teacher, ask them what books on technique that they have recommended in the past, AND what authorities they are currently studying now.  All good teachers are continual students of piano pedagogy, without exception (Nobody has all of the answers).

All good teachers continue to improve their pedagogy.  They don't all study with "authorities", and/or the people from whom they have learned important things aren't always known names.  Nor do they all get their technique from books.  

[keypeg]

And 2) get on with it and don't pay any attention to any further posts!
 

That is insulting to anyone posting in this thread.  It also makes the assumption that the advice offered is the be all and end all.  In fact, if I were to interview a teacher and that teacher started listing books and names that I was supposed to recognize, I would become cautious.  This is due to my experience, just as your advice probably comes from yours.

Were I to interview a teacher tomorrow, I would want to know that teacher's priorities, philosophies, and something of what they expect of students.  To know how they guide a student, I'd have to experience it.  The teacher would have to be interested in my goals, and I would hope to have feedback on whether they are realistic, whether there are better goals, how such goals would be reached - something of that nature.  If I sense an all pervasive formula and cookie cutter mentality, then I'm cautious again.  In fact, that's where the books and Names come in.  It depends how those books and names are taken.

[louispodesta]

That is insulting to anyone posting in this thread.  It also makes the assumption that the advice offered is the be all and end all.  In fact, if I were to interview a teacher and that teacher started listing books and names that I was supposed to recognize, I would become cautious.  This is due to my experience, just as your advice probably comes from yours.

Were I to interview a teacher tomorrow, I would want to know that teacher's priorities, philosophies, and something of what they expect of students.  To know how they guide a student, I'd have to experience it.  The teacher would have to be interested in my goals, and I would hope to have feedback on whether they are realistic, whether there are better goals, how such goals would be reached - something of that nature.  If I sense an all pervasive formula and cookie cutter mentality, then I'm cautious again.  In fact, that's where the books and Names come in.  It depends how those books and names are taken.

Very well put.  I agree.
 

[keypeg]

Very well put.  I agree.

Thanks.  I hoped I wasn't coming on too strong before.  The thing is that I have had encounters with teacher(s) who were all about the books they had read, and there was no connection to the student in front of them, and the interaction was harmful.  I don't mean an emotional connection, but simply seeing where the student was at physically in playing, in understanding of music and such.  There are these "student prototypes" and the danger of teaching the imaginary model, rather than the student in front of you.

Otoh, I have had the fortune of studying with a teacher or two had were very observant, had excellent instincts and mastery of their own craft, who I think could have become one of those "names" that can get quoted.  But they themselves had not followed anyone.  I'd like the door to that possibility to stay open.