Dilemna : good 52'' upright or very good 46'' upright ?

[sebmk]

Hello,

I have not seen this question here before. Sorry if I missed something.

I m going to buy an upright with "silent" system. My teacher suggested me to look for a better piano but I have not enough room for a Grand. My budget is limited too (15 k€ or 20 kUSD).

After looking at many websites I was convinced that a new 52'' Yamaha in my budget was the best.
In shops I also tested Schimmel, Steingraeber, Bösendorfer and Bechstein. I didn't try at this stage Petrof, Grotrian Steinweg, Kawai or Blüthner.

I noticed, despite the fact I'm just an amateur, that it was wonderful to play Steingraeber, far better than Yamaha. Price was also far better : 2.5 times  out of my budget.
Schimmel or Bechstein were somewhere between Yamaha and Steingraeber in my opinion.
I wasn't able to decide between Bösenforfer and Steingraeber
I also noticed that higher piano had more "possibilities" than smaller. It seems obvious but I tested on Bechstein to be sure  .
Moreover vendors said me it was almost impossible to find second hand Steingraeber or Bechstein.

So is my dilemna : is it better to buy a "small" Steingraber/Bechstein... or a "big" Yamaha/Kawai ?  If you experienced both kind of instruments during a long time I'm interested in your feedback 

Many thanks

[sirpazhan]

small high end piano.  

in your first sentence you mention buying an upright with a 'silent' system.. then your concern for a larger piano, that produces more projection shouldn't be priority..  

You should buy what you like, and enjoy playing most, a piano you feel most connected with, the one that lets you express yourself totally and completely.. that's the piano that will make you a better pianist. so don't let 6" inches in height stand in the way of that.  

[sebmk]

Thank you.

It was my intuition but I was a little afraid by some kinds of limits I'm not aware about.

Your answer helps me.

[richard black]

46" is not, by most standards, a small piano! And a good one (from makes like Steingraeber and Bechstein) can be very good indeed. Personally, I've found all the really big Yamaha and Kawai uprights I've played deeply disappointing, so I wouldn't have the slightest hesitation buying the 'small' piano.

[quantum]

Personally, with the budget you propose, I would prefer a grand than a large upright.  The advantages in the grand action would far outweigh that of a vertical.  At that price, you can get a very nice second-hand grand.  I would much rather get rid of a sofa, 60" TV, or large table to make space for a medium sized grand, then have a large upright.  You could use the space underneath the grand as storage.  As well, I've seen many professional pianists use the top of the closed lid on their grand as a place to store their scores. 

In my experience playing all sorts of pianos, I would have a tendency to lean towards a modest grand as opposed to a high-end vertical.  Grands tend to feel more ergonomic then many of the verticals I've played.  The position of the pedals on many verticals feels cramped to me, being placed too forward.  While one grands I have found them generally placed further back, allowing the legs to be more naturally outstretched. 

Then again, these are my opinions.  You need to go with the piano that feels right to you.  Don't just look at the name or the price.  Choose a piano that will make you eager to get up every morning and make music. 

[hfmadopter]

In my experience playing all sorts of pianos, I would have a tendency to lean towards a modest grand as opposed to a high-end vertical.  Grands tend to feel more ergonomic then many of the verticals I've played.  The position of the pedals on many verticals feels cramped to me, being placed too forward.  While one grands I have found them generally placed further back, allowing the legs to be more naturally outstretched.   

I agree, even though some people seem to have a natural attraction to one style or another. Anyway, I had not thought of the forward pedal position as an argument against an upright but now that you brought it up, you are 100% correct about that. When I sit at an upright ( I am 6'2" tall though), the first thing I tended to do was get my feet caught in the pedals, not expecting them to be so close. I've even kicked the cabinet by accident ( size 13 shoes might have something to do with that) I've owned the grand so long now I had not even thought of or recalled this.

Of course, could it be that for a shorter person this closer pedal situation would be appealing ?

[withindale]

The advantages in the grand action would far outweigh that of a vertical. At that price, you can get a very nice second-hand grand.

Yes, you can get a good baby grand, such as a Blüthner, for around 15k€ if you are patient.

On the other hand, if you don't have the space or the budget, a good upright can be regulated to repeat as well as a grand and serve you very well.

[indianajo]

I really don't like the sound of the bass on the 52" Yamaha studio piano at our church.  It was purchased in 2006.  It doesn't even begin to produce enough sound for a 600 seat hall. 
I much prefer the sound of my 39" Sohmer or 40" Steinway consoles, even though the bass tones are produces through interference of two higher tones. 
As my leg length was determined by my native American ancestors, I much prefer the pedal position on a console piano.  Europeans or Africans may prefer the grand pedal position.  Becoming used to the grand action limits one's choice of venues. I have only had two locations with a functioning grand in my lifetime. I have played numerous console pianos.   
One has to remember when one purchases a grand, every time it moves, it takes four men, a "piano board" tool, a serious rubber pad dolly, a 1500 pound rated ramp or seriously long hydraulic lift gate, and a truck with tie offs on the side.  One of the men has to really know what he is doing to avoid damage.  The legs and pedals must be removed in a non-obvious fashion, and packaged so the parts won't be lost in the warehouse.    In this market, a two block move with one stairstep would be $800 minimum. 
A console piano can be moved by two men with a cheap dolly, 4x4 boards for a ramp, in almost any truck, for about $120 in this market.  It only requires a minimum of care to remove the music rack and not break the legs off a console. 

[hfmadopter]

   
One has to remember when one purchases a grand, every time it moves, it takes four men, a "piano board" tool, a serious rubber pad dolly, a 1500 pound rated ramp or seriously long hydraulic lift gate, and a truck with tie offs on the side.  One of the men has to really know what he is doing to avoid damage.  The legs and pedals must be removed in a non-obvious fashion, and packaged so the parts won't be lost in the warehouse.    In this market, a two block move with one stairstep would be $800 minimum. 
 

My piano tuner and I moved my grand to my house using a borrowed steak body truck with a standard hydraulic lift gate. Home made dolly, ramp made from a 2x10 plank and a couple of support blocks of wood mid length along the plank. It moved very easily, actually easier than my old upright using it's own caster wheels. My grand is just shy of 6 ft. Yes you have to take the legs off, the top off, the action out and you have to strap it on edge to the dolly. It cost me gas money and the tuners time. We are not talking about a concert grand here.

Additionally, we did this just once some 30 odd years ago. The joy the piano has brought to me would have been worth 800 bucks ! Chris had the dolly and moves pianos around his shop all the time and suggested to not hire a mover that if I could get a truck then he would help me move it. So that's what we did.