How many years?

[jorley]

Hi! After how many years would you say that one who is dedicated and practices a lot will need to go from beginner level to being able to tackle Chopin's 1st ballade? And how many years would it take for a dedicated grade 5 player to be able to play this ballade? I mean, what is normal?

[lojay]

If you look at the average person that starts piano lessons, I would guess: never.  This isn't your question though!

You're asking about someone dedicated who practices a lot.  Of course, a lot is relative.  This is relative for the person AND the level that person is at.  If a young beginner were to practice 6 hours daily, I'd wonder if abuse was involved.  If an advanced student at the conservatory level were practice 6 hours daily, I'd say they're not doing enough if they had aspirations to become concert pianists.

I know a few dedicated young beginners who practiced "a lot" (several hours daily) and also had music lessons 3+ times a week in addition to other music training classes.  I think they were at the grade 5 level in less than a year.  Their parents were extremely pushy though...

I've recently looked at both the RCM and ABRSM syllabi for a music theory study group I'm organizing on these forums.  In terms of time, I'd say level 5 RCM is less than 1/5th the way to Associate Level (the level after 10, where the Ballades are listed as repertoire choices).

The fact is, most people don't practice a lot.  Assuming someone did practice a lot for their level (1 hour daily is probably normal, so lets say 5+ hours at the level 5 stage), and increasing it appropriately as they went to higher levels, I'd say it would take a normal person a little less than two years.

[jorley]

So it would be possible to reach Ballade 1 level in two years only if you go from level 5?

[jorley]

Do you mean that when you have reached grade 5, you have reached 1/5 of the level required to reach the ballades, or do you mean that you have 1/5 left, that you have reached 4/5 already?

[awesom_o]

MUSIC ISN'T ABOUT FRACTIONS AND LEVELS! go practice. Aren't you the guy who wants to turn pro in the next 3 years?

[jorley]

No that's my friend

[lojay]

Do you mean that when you have reached grade 5, you have reached 1/5 of the level required to reach the ballades, or do you mean that you have 1/5 left, that you have reached 4/5 already?

I wrote "In terms of time...", I should have wrote, "In terms of time practicing..."; sorry for any confusion.

Usually as students increase in their grade, they practice more.  Getting from grade 1-2 may only take like 20 hours (I'm throwing a random number out here) of total practice time while getting from grade 5-6 will take longer (remember I'm throwing a number to illustrate my point) along the lines of something like 50 hours.  Keep in mind that everyone is different, but generally each subsequent level takes more hours of practice time.

Also, you asked about "being able to tackle Chopin's 1st ballade".  My definition of being able to tackle something means being able to learn the notes and getting it near tempo in a reasonable time (for this piece I'd say no longer than 2 weeks of dedicated practice).  Most people on these forums, by my definition, are not ready to tackle it but learn it anyway.  The question is, are you willing to dedicate like 4+ months of a painfully slow study of it to just get the notes?  If your teacher is willing to teach it to you, go for it, why not?  I don't think it's the best growth piece, but with the proper guidance it can be very rewarding.

MUSIC ISN'T ABOUT FRACTIONS AND LEVELS! go practice. Aren't you the guy who wants to turn pro in the next 3 years?

This is so true!  If you want to go pro in 3 years from grade 5, you should be practicing in your sleep (or even losing sleep to practice)!  You shouldn't be worried how you compare to other people.  I feel that if you can play a piece well, no one will care how long it took you to learn it.

[awesom_o]

hmm. Well, regardless. Music isn't about fractions and levels. There is no 'level' required to reach the Ballades.

You can print out the music, and butcher it whenever you feel like it.

If you like music, practice every day, and don't worry about 'how many years' and 'what level am I at' and 'how much time do I need to go up a level'?

A person who loves music does not ask these things.

If you do not love music, do not play music.

[emill]

hmm. Well, regardless. Music isn't about fractions and levels. There is no 'level' required to reach the Ballades. You can print out the music, and butcher it whenever you feel like it.

If you like music, practice every day, and don't worry about 'how many years' and 'what level am I at' and 'how much time do I need to go up a level'? A person who loves music does not ask these things.

If you do not love music, do not play music.

Very well said .... though sometimes it is the pianist himself and the demands he places on himself.......   I remember my son Enzo started to learn and practice Chopin's ballade No.1 early last year and in 2 to 3 weeks I had a big smile on my face, so did his teacher whenever he practiced the piece.  For me, it was good progress in so short a time and I was happy being one of my favorite Chopin pieces.  Then as suddenly he stopped practicing and "archived" the piece.  When queried, he simply answered - " I lost the feel for the piece; it has just become another ordinary piece ... maybe someday".    I was disappointed.

[thalbergmad]

When queried, he simply answered - " I lost the feel for the piece; it has just become another ordinary piece ... maybe someday".    I was disappointed.

Same thing happened to me. Some pieces I fall in love the more I practice them, but with the Ballade 1, by the time I had in in my fingers I had no desire to perform it.

I learned it when I was 17 and have never played it since apart from tinkerings. So many good recordings and I have nothing to add.

Luv

Thal