Hi everyone,I always have students with the first joint of the finger hyperextended when playing(bend back). I mentioned so many times, but she still can hardly correct it when playing one piece. Dose anyone have some approach to help her get the correct feeling of the fingers?Thank you so much!!Lia
The finger (likely all of them...) needs strengthening in the curl direction. You're not looking for a hand-crushing grip, but you do want strength. Almost any exercise -- squeezing a ball or something of the sort -- might help, just don't have the student overdo it.
It all depends on where it comes from. Since this is a ligament problem, not a muscle problem, "grasping" may actually worsen the problem if we think about how the collapse occurs.
It's nothing to do with blogs or lengthening. We are just not used to grasping with one finger. I teach 'em to scratch the keys, but the will needs to be there - often it's not.
Dare I ask which ligament? And you need to ask yourself have you ever seen someone hyperextend when they grasp something? Your advice raise the finger is good.
The problem's not congenital for the vast majority just the wrong learned coordination.
Which ligaments?
Please read here: Volar or palmar plate.
Thankyou for the reference - now we know what we're talking about. I'm sure the vast majority have perfectly adequate palmer/volar plates but I would guess in well drilled pianists they are more resistant. That really doesn't answer the OP's question on the breaking in of the nail joint problem for your average healthy student though. The ligaments shouldn't require 'workouts' in beginners.
@nyiregyhazi - I read your blog post, and found it interesting.However, when I experimented with my own fingers, I encountered a phenomenon which may interest you:If I pull my finger back along a surface as though scratching or gouging, the nail joint remains curved outward. However, if I do it as though wiping or smearing, the nail joint collapses.The two gestures, when performed in mid-air, are indistinguishable.Could it be that students who are prone to joint collapse are simply inclined to pull the wrong muscle group instinctively, and therefore need more specific instruction?
When i used to use those kinds of gripping movements, I also used to get joint pains in the tips. I've not had this once since I changed style of movement.
Never had that, even at loud volumes.
At the time when this sometimes caused issues, I was playing various big Liszt works, including the Sonata. I still am now, but never with even a mild ache in those joints.
Hyperextension *can be a real problem if a person wants to advance to higher levels, because he/she loses approximately half of his/her flexor capability.
Always 'the big Liszt works'! I am coming over to the conclusion that this obsession with producing virtuosos helps no one. A lighter, tensionless technique can easily be modified to some 'big Liszt' one but not the other way round. I don't teach kids to play big works on some big concert Steinway, I teach them to play intimately and that, in my book, is what playing is all about. If concert pianism becomes their thing I'll happily send them elsewhere. For hundreds of years that was after all what it was all about. First we need to ask ourselves what's the purpose of piano instruction - too many have got it wrong, I can't help thinking.
Hyperextension *can* be a real problem if a person wants to advance to higher levels, because he/she loses approximately half of his/her flexor capability. The reaction to this, experienced as a "lack of strength", may become clawing and clenching into the keys, and a prolonged visit to the physiotherapist.
the fallacious implication being that the likes of Horowitz, volodos and cziffra etc. could not play intimately?
That which works gets you by in an "intimate" setting may not necessarily apply elsewhere
Just what they said of Chopin.
Chopin executed advanced technical demands at fast tempos.
, give them the right technical tools, so that when they are on their own, they will be able to pass the ultimate test of a couple of virtuoso pieces if they want to without getting hurt.
Outin, have really tried to scratch with your finger nail? There must not be any push or poke element - analyse what scratching really entails. Stick a tiny sticker on a key - can you scratch it off?
. This is not simple to explain in words...
Amusing to read this thread after spending almost half my lesson yesterday trying to come up with exercises to fix the hyperextension in my right 5th. It is a real impairment, because it prevents me from playing a proper octave. The 1st joint just gives away while I cannot straighten the 2nd. I think it's a bit similar to the problem on the right thumb. Trying to curl causes the finger to snap or the tip to slide under. Trying to extend causes the tip to slide to a badly hyperextended position which is painful. In general the fingertip can take no weight when the finger is straight. On smaller stretches I can keep the finger in some sort of shape without the knuckle collapsing, but with the octave it won't work. Using my other hand to stabilise the joints gives me a feeling what it should be like, but I cannot reproduce that. I've been trying to "mimic" the actions on my left hand which has always worked just fine, but the finger joints on the right are just so different. Exercises I have found in books has never helped. So we'll just keep trying to find a solution...
And at greatly attenuated dynamics on very light touch pianos.
I don't care how attenuated the dynamics of a TB sufferer were. Are you suffering serious illness? Chopin could still play for real and many commented on the fire he cold achieve.
That's a very interesting comment. I've played on a Broadwood grand of Chopin's period and the first thing that comes to mind is what fire is at one's fingertips. I've played a Fazioli on the other hand - it plays itself, but no fire.
if you literally slide forwards in the extending action, there's a danger that the joint can collapse still- particularly if you have a habit of downward arm pressure (which is almost always an issue when fingers are collapsing). Start resting flatly down on the nail (by curling up first) and gently push yourself back away from it until you're in a pianistic posture with no sliding during extension. The extending should feel slightly forwards but not be making you slip, or its too much force. I've never yet found a student who couldn't get it from this starter point, although it can still take a lot of perseverance to make this action habitual in playing.