Chopin etude op 25 no 11

[cadenceiiv7i]

Hello everyone,
Does anyone have any tips for improving technique in Chopin's etude op 25 no 11? There are two main types of passages: the descending ones with every second note chromatically going down and the ones that are kind of like arpeggios but sometimes have awkward finger crossings. I find that the second type is more challenging for me, and I'd really appreciate if someone had a tip for improving accuracy and precision in those passages! One other thing is I have a tendency to get tired by the last two pages (my edition has eight pages). The problem is that the hardest passage of the piece (in my opinion, of course) is in the second last page and I find that I play it significantly worse when I'm playing the whole piece through rather than when I play the passage separately. I would like to improve my stamina and be able to stay strong till the end, especially since this etude is usually not the finale of a program and if I'm tired by the end of it, it will affect the next piece in the program.
One more question about this piece: I play this piece at almost exactly 3.5 minutes (20 seconds for intro). Is this too slow for competitions? Sometimes I see other people play it so fast and I get really envious.
Thank you so very much!!!!

[awesom_o]

I wouldn't worry about the timing. It's the feel that is most important. If you can play it with amazing feel, no one will care if it was 3.5 minutes or 4.5 minutes.

The penultimate page is indeed challenging. Isolate it, but always practice it in its proper context as well. Do slow practice hands together. Also do hands separate work. Use no pedal in practice. Just connect the notes with your ear.

In general, the more Chopin Etudes you can play, the better you can play each individual one. How many others have you studied?

[andrewkoay]

3.5 mins is pretty fast by any standards. The recorded version by Andrei Gavrilov (my favourite version) which is incredibly fast, ends at 3:16.

If you get tired, it means that you're still playing it too fast. You need to practice at a tempo which is incredibly relaxed for you. As you work out the kinks in the various passages, you will be able to go faster naturally.

There shouldn't be any "stamina" that is required to finish the Etude. It requires a strong hand, but you shouldn't be feeling any strain if you play it correctly. With regards to the strain, it is always in certain parts where the strain comes in (normally parts where you have to stretch). Identify those passages and tackle them until you can play them absolutely smoothly without any tension at all. Speed shouldn't be forced, but rather developed. Speed shouldn't be your goal, but rather control, relaxation and musicality.

I'm also practicing this piece at the moment. The arpeggios are indeed hard especially those with 5th finger crossings, they are horrendous. I personally find the few passages in the middle harder than the ones at the end. What I would suggest is to move with your arm (free up your arms to help your fingers out!), instead of stretching to hit the note. Stretching while playing fast is always a recipe for strain. Also, try raising your wrist and play downwards with minimal finger lifting. Having a few "anchor" notes in each passage also helps a lot, i.e. a special note that your hands will jump towards as a sort of "reset" button for your hand position/shape (to keep your hands from remaining stretched!).

[chopin2015]

hello, I have a few tips for you, from experience.

There is a difference between playing fast and playing with your arm weight.

I know your teachers have told you to press the keys all the way down...ONLY DO THIS WHEN PRACTICING, very slowly. When performing or playing through the arpeggio sections, play LIGHTLY!!!! I repeat, lightly. Barely press the keys all the way in, sweep your hand much more with your fingers, than with your arm weight. When sweeping the arpeggios, think of the top note.  The cool thing about this etude is that the melody is in the left hand, so the arpeggios do not have to be loud and crisp. Also, try practicing them with your eyes closed, so you get used to the sound.

 The second tip I have for you is to play this etude on a fast, light piano. My fav is a kawai upright. This helps you build accents, and leave you free of frustration because you will easily get the sound you want. You will be able to play this etude on a fast, light piano easier, and so you will feel satisfaction, which boosts confidence, which improves performance. Also, you will learn more about the sound, which will automatically translate to the grand piano, except the feel will be different and you will have to adjust, which is a skill pianists must build anyways....

Hope that was interesting. let me know if ya need help. thnx. 

[cadenceiiv7i]

hello, I have a few tips for you, from experience.

There is a difference between playing fast and playing with your arm weight.

I know your teachers have told you to press the keys all the way down...ONLY DO THIS WHEN PRACTICING, very slowly. When performing or playing through the arpeggio sections, play LIGHTLY!!!! I repeat, lightly. Barely press the keys all the way in, sweep your hand much more with your fingers, than with your arm weight. When sweeping the arpeggios, think of the top note.  The cool thing about this etude is that the melody is in the left hand, so the arpeggios do not have to be loud and crisp. Also, try practicing them with your eyes closed, so you get used to the sound.

 The second tip I have for you is to play this etude on a fast, light piano. My fav is a kawai upright. This helps you build accents, and leave you free of frustration because you will easily get the sound you want. You will be able to play this etude on a fast, light piano easier, and so you will feel satisfaction, which boosts confidence, which improves performance. Also, you will learn more about the sound, which will automatically translate to the grand piano, except the feel will be different and you will have to adjust, which is a skill pianists must build anyways....

Hope that was interesting. let me know if ya need help. thnx. 

Thanks so much for your advice!! I have a kawai baby grand and it was rather light, but now, I got it voiced. It sounds like I'm pressing the left pedal down all the time even when I'm not. It's very frustrating and it's doing the opposite of boosting my confidence. What can I do to improve on such a piano? Thanks again!!

[chopin2015]

Thanks so much for your advice!! I have a kawai baby grand and it was rather light, but now, I got it voiced. It sounds like I'm pressing the left pedal down all the time even when I'm not. It's very frustrating and it's doing the opposite of boosting my confidence. What can I do to improve on such a piano? Thanks again!!

Can you tell me more about the piano? Have you talked to any other technicians around your area? I would talk to someone who does restoration, actually...try someone who does pedal repair! I think the sustain mechanism in a grand piano should be adjusted and maintenanced more often than it usually is. Try asking for a heavier pedal, perhaps a louder one.

[dima_76557]

Does anyone have any tips for improving technique in Chopin's etude op 25 no 11?

From the rest of your post, I can understand that your focus is not the one you need to play this piece successfully, let alone win a competition. This particular piece can be played on ANY piano. Don't think in terms of raw physical power (cramped, tensed muscles that block power channels), but in terms of kinetic energy (free channels of kinetic power). Practise slowly with eyes closed for excellent tone quality. Develop "speed" by practising passages in chunks, hand positions, etc.
P.S.: It's not the absolute speed that makes winners; it's what you give to the audience in terms of pleasure listening to what you do, regardless of the difficulties in the piece.