Question On Playing Scales

[johannesbrahms]

Josef Lhevinne said that to produce a good tone, you should play with the ball of the finger touching the keys.  I have long fingers, though, so when playing a C major scale, to let the ball of the finger touch the key, my fingers run between the black keys.  This makes it hard to play, so I'm wondering if any of you have any suggestions to help me.

Thanks a lot!

[faulty_damper]

Lhevinne was an idiot if he believed the part of the finger that touches the keys has anything to do with tone.  It's even speed between the hammers that produces an even tone.

[timothy42b]

.  I have long fingers, though, so when playing a C major scale, to let the ball of the finger touch the key, my fingers run between the black keys. 

I think your description is incomplete.

I think you meant IF you insist on keeping your thumb well forward at all times, THEN your fingers will run between the black keys.

[awesom_o]

Lhevinne was an idiot if he believed the part of the finger that touches the keys has anything to do with tone.  It's even speed between the hammers that produces an even tone.

Have you ever listened to any recordings of Lhevinne?

[faulty_damper]

Have you ever listened to any recordings of Lhevinne?

Have you ever heard recording by Rachmaninoff? That's irrelevant.

You can make even tone on the tips of fingers just as well as on the pads.  Similarly, you can make even tone by playing on the sides of fingers.  The part of the body that touches the keys is irrelevant in making even tone.

I use the word 'even' instead of "good" since "good" can mean anything without musical context.  Even gives an objective goal.

[awesom_o]

Lhevinne was an idiot if he believed.....

No idiot could play this!

 

This man obviously knows that hammer-speed is the key to producing good, even tone!
Please, no idiot could graduate from Moscow Conservatory at the very top of the class, winning the Gold Medal for piano over both Rachmaninoff and Scriabin (who both graduated the same year)!

[faulty_damper]

But you still try to make the implication that being good at doing something automatically makes you good at teaching it.

BTW, I had a teacher who was internationally acclaimed.  His Debussy is unsurpassed by anyone, dead or alive.  But, he was a terrible teacher.  His students were frequently injured and they simply didn't make much improvement.  Even though he was good, his students simply weren't.  In fact, they were terrible considering that they practiced the most of all the students.

[awesom_o]

Josef Lhevinne was one of the most highly-regarded teachers of the early 20th century. He was lecturer at Juilliard for over 20 years before his sudden death. His wife, Rosina, took over his teaching duties then, and her students included Garrick Olhsson and Van Cliburn.

I'm sorry to hear you had a poor teacher who happened to play magnificently.
This has nothing to do with Josef Lhevinne.

[faulty_damper]

That's a terrible thing to say.  Olhsson and Cliburn?  Just goes to show that no matter how magnificently a teacher plays, it doesn't guarantee their students will play just as magnificently.

[awesom_o]

You know.... I think you're right. Josef Lhevinne obviously was an awful teacher, because you don't like Garrick Olhsson or Van Cliburn. 

[faulty_damper]

Yes, thank you for saying it like it is. Because both of them weren't very good.  Olhsson's Chopin was bad.  And Cliburn was a finger monster.   Hannon did them no good.

[awesom_o]

You must have some pretty smooth moves on the keyboard yourself, to speak this way of such highly distinguished pianists!

Have you any recordings or videos to share?

[faulty_damper]

How I play is irrelevant.  And highly distinguished in reputation only, not mad skillz.

[dima_76557]

Lhevinne was an idiot if he believed the part of the finger that touches the keys has anything to do with tone.

That seems to be obsolete science now, Faulty. Lhevinne must have been a genius:
Computer Analysis of the Indirect Piano Touch: Analysis Methods and Results - Aristotelis Hadjakos

[pianoplunker]

Josef Lhevinne said that to produce a good tone, you should play with the ball of the finger touching the keys.  I have long fingers, though, so when playing a C major scale, to let the ball of the finger touch the key, my fingers run between the black keys.  This makes it hard to play, so I'm wondering if any of you have any suggestions to help me.

Thanks a lot!

I am sorry to be a clueless poster and bring this thread to a dumb-down but what is the "ball" of your finger ? i have heard of Great Balls of Fire but not Great Balls of Fingers

[dima_76557]

I am sorry to be a clueless poster and bring this thread to a dumb-down but what is the "ball" of your finger ? i have heard of Great Balls of Fire but not Great Balls of Fingers

As far as I remember, Lhevinne doesn't use that expression. He refers to the soft, fleshy fingerpads, as opposed to the fingertips.

[faulty_damper]

As far as I remember, Lhevinne doesn't use that expression. He refers to the soft, fleshy fingerpads, as opposed to the fingertips.

If this is true, then in other words, playing flat-fingered.

[dima_76557]

If this is true, then in other words, playing flat-fingered.

"Flat-fingered" sounds like fingers stretched out, but that is not exactly necessary to activate the fingerpads. I prefer pictures rather than words. If you do what Lhevinne shows here (a gentle swing from the knuckle, nothing forceful!), you also land on your fingerpads, even if your hand arch (hand knuckle bridge) is up:



"Arthur Rubinstein in Hamburg" shows us how this is accomplished without lifting the fingers:

EDIT: Here is part II of the "Basic Principles", so everyone can hear from the master himself what he actually meant:
https://etudemagazine.com/etude/1923/11/basic-principles-in-pianoforteplayingsecured-exclusively.html
(Under "Essentials of a Good Touch")

[apollon1717]

Lhevinne was an idiot if he believed the part of the finger that touches the keys has anything to do with tone.  It's even speed between the hammers that produces an even tone.

Lhevinne was an idiot??!!
 There's one too many in this room and I think it's you.