How do you feel about piano trancriptions of operas or orchestral music then? Certainly the composer did not intend his ideas for voice or another instrument to be reduced to the limited means of a piano? Yet this crime was regularly committed by the 19th century composers.
Before the author of this clip, I would make a case for getting to know the composer better through his other output before abusing any of his works in a way that is not appropriate. The moment you get to know most of his works, you develop a certain intuition, and you will be able to tell at a glance what he meant (as with a very close friend) and for what you can and can't do with his works: List of compositions by Sergei Rachmaninoff
I want to express my appreciation of this clip. “Elegia” has been played by many famous pianists, and one can find its many interpretations on youTube. It happened that I did not like those which were too “gloomy” with overpowering dramatics. So naturally, when the music started I already got the idea, but I was intrigued by the visual story and did not turn it off. At the moment when the pianist raises his hand to rich to his baseball hat, I was rewarded by new emotions and new understanding of “Elegia”. The clip was telling me that while the music can exist just by itself, we still need a musician to be touched by it. Can you recognize a musician just by looking at him? Music recognizes him first, despite of his jeans, a t-shirt, and a baseball hat. Suddenly "Elegia” tells a story of someone who came, was recognized and gone, but never lost. I listened again through the clip and it was there in music, however without video I would fail to hear it. Thanks for this experience, because even at the concert I usually close me eyes to absorb the sound better.
@ levdeych This particular piece of music as it is should not be dumbed down to please the masses. That's exactly what this clip is doing. It distracts from the elements that give the piece its appeal with images that are not related, and besides, the author gravely misunderstood the function of the B part in this Elegy. He can therefore not be very well acquainted at all with Rachmaninoff's output. P.S.1: What's wrong with standing up for what a person believes in? The more so since we have a longstanding tradition here in Russia of how to play works by that composer. How can we *not* know what it is about?
@ levdeychI am afraid you are misinterpreting my message and quite aggressively so: some pieces should just not be touched for video projects because they contain enough to speak for themselves. If video clips are deemed required, they should be chosen with good taste and consideration for what the contents really represent because visuals tend to overpower audio as it is. This is not Rachmaninoff's "ghost song". I cannot imagine that Sergey's teacher, the renowned professor Nina Svetlanova, would ever give her blessing to such a reading. Whatever good taste has to do with totalitarian thinking beats me.
Good taste has nothing to do with totalitarian thinking, but insistence that you are the only one having good taste definitely does.
As far as M-m Svetlanova is concerned, I cannot talk for her, but from what I heard she liked the video, and definitely had no problems with interpretation of part B of Elegie.
Don't you think that's a bit of an exaggerated version of what I actually said? I have played this piece 4 times "live" and it was 4 times on different funerals upon request. The clips are available, but I won't show them because they're simply too heart-breaking, too shocking.
I usually listen to music with my eyes closed (unless I am driving), so this was an experience for me. Music always paints pictures in my mind, but it is equally pleasing to have those pictures painted for you by way of video.I loved what you have done and look forward to seeing/hearing more of your work.Thal
I see that you have very powerful personal history behind this piece, which makes it very hard for you to see possible alternatives. This I can understand and respect. Still, I expect people with opposite views to at least acknowledge that their views are based on their personal history, and not to present them as "absolute truths". I am sorry, that this is how your posts came across. I do not mind anyone not liking things that I like and disagreeing with me, this is normal. But I do have low tolerance level for people attacking personal and professional integrity of their opponents.
I still have doubts that have nothing to do with my personal experience/taste and that are intended to support Sergey in his aspirations.
Three questions to start with:1) Who exactly is the target group?2) Is the only goal of this clip to popularize this music among people that don't know it?3) Did this video clip (+ storyline) pass an independent director's judgement?(Respectfully submitted).
Sergei, being long dead, stopped aspiring some time ago, and never needed or sought your support in any case.
What do you care. You are clearly not part of 1).I know you feel a special affinity of Rachmaninoff generally, and this piece in particular, but you do not own it. It needs no protector.
The pianist in the clip is the Sergei I am referring to.
Thank you for your balanced reply. I still have doubts that have nothing to do with my personal experience/taste and that are intended to support Sergei in his aspirations. Three questions to start with:1) Who exactly is the target group?2) Is the only goal of this clip to popularize this music among people that don't know it?3) Did this video clip (+ storyline) pass an independent director's judgement?(Respectfully submitted).
I begin with the last question, which I, however, do not quite understand. What do you mean by independent director? The pianist in the clip did not direct and shoot the clip, he just, if I may say, "starred" in it and provided his recording of the piece. The "story" line, directing, cinematography, has been done by a different person. Does it qualify as an independent director's judgement?
The "problem" with that person is that he/she knew the storyline, so he/she can read between his/her own lines with the assumptions in the back of his/her head. I would be very interested to know whether an independent director (or a very experienced viewer of that kind of clips) can make out what the first part of the clip is about simply in terms of picture associations without getting additional info. I have tried, even with the sound off, but I can't. I may, of course, be too stuck in my "suffering-has-meaning" scenario to accept any movement at all. Besides, I am also not well-versed in the MTV video-clip culture.Why I asked these questions. While for an MTV audience almost anything may be acceptable as long as it moves, we are dealing here with another genre and I suspect that professionals of all kinds who may come across any video clips of a certain artist X in this format will hold pianist X responsible for the artistic end result, even if somebody else made the clip since pianist X willingly participated and plays the lead role. What we see will be considered pianist X's view, not somebody else's. J_menz repeatedly rubbed my nose in it, so I can accept now that the video and audio lines may perhaps exist independently, but you want to make sure that each separate line of elements is understood on an intuitive level the way you intended to get your artistic message across to even the most critical professional. I hope this makes sense? Am I severely mistaken again? Thank you for your patience.
But why should the message be understood like that?
The "problem" with that person is that he/she knew the storyline, so he/she can read between his/her own lines with the assumptions in the back of his/her head. I would be very interested to know whether an independent director (or a very experienced viewer of that kind of clips) can make out what the first part of the clip is about simply in terms of picture associations without getting additional info.Why I asked these questions. While for an MTV audience almost anything may be acceptable as long as it moves, we are dealing here with another genre and I suspect that professionals of all kinds who may come across any video clips of a certain artist X in this format will hold pianist X responsible for the artistic end result, even if somebody else made the clip since pianist X willingly participated and plays the lead role. What we see will be considered pianist X's view, not somebody else's. J_menz repeatedly rubbed my nose in it, so I can accept now that the video and audio lines may perhaps exist independently, but you want to make sure that each separate line of elements is understood on an intuitive level the way you intended to get your artistic message across to even the most critical professional. I hope this makes sense? Am I severely mistaken again? Thank you for your patience.
Example: There's a clip by Valentina Igoshina of the Chopin Nocturne in C minor. The way she gives horny looks into the camera at the most psychologically unlucky moments in the development of that tragic piece has raised lots of eyebrows. I believe it's her husband who edited it (there's even an apology) but she herself is held responsible. I am surprised to see that she hasn't replaced the video "stimuli" with anything else (the audio is good). Completely beside the point of the piece, and while I used to admire her, she has lost it as a serious artist as far as I am concerned.
The thing about music is that while you can treat any classical composition as a kind of a story, I do not think it is right for an artist, employing non-musical means, to impose his interpretation of the story in a too concrete, too explicit form. It limits a broad musical content to someone's too specific a vision.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Some things should not be said or shown too explicitly.P.S.: May I ask you what you think of this? Wouldn't this work well for the intended audience?It's the same Elegie but this time for cello and piano with minimum visual factors. The performer is the (then) 9-grade [15-year old] cello student of the Central Music School here in Moscow, Anastasia Kobekina.
Like what?
I was referring to:"make sure that each separate line of elements is understood on an intuitive level the way you intended to get your artistic message across"
OK. Personally, I am very visual. If I see something that doesn't make sense, I spend energy trying to understand what I see, energy that had better be spent on the audio impulses of this very powerful piece. But as you know from another thread, eyes dominate over ears when they are used together. You then have a choice: either close your eyes and listen or stop actually listening and watch. The last variant is a sin (in the sense of wasted time and energy). It is also a sign that the director has failed in his mission: instead of adding something valuable, he has taken away the essentials. There must be a perfect balance of all elements for this format to work. Does that make sense?
There's no such thing in my vocabulary as sin, and I certainly don't see anything wrong with choosing only to watch/listen. Why do you say that the director has failed?
It's not the terminology. "Sin" is whatever you do that you know you shouldn't have done. It's just a short word to type.If the aim of the video clip is to better acquaint people with the music of a certain composer, wouldn't you want the audience to actually listen to that music, accompanied with a video that does not distract the attention from the audio? If the intended audience instead starts watching without listening, what is the clip for then? Do we want Classical music to go the same way as most of the "music" in the pop culture; useless background noise?
But how can you assume that other people than you are distracted in the similar way by the video?
And if some are, why should the director care?
I hate to say this, but science has proven that it works that way for virtually everybody. This has to do with building trust as a defense mechanism against threats. That's what the eyes are for. As soon as the eyes trust what they see, the ears can take over. If you are really really interested, I can try to locate a source (.pdf or something)That's a business decision in favor of quality others who don't care so much may not provide. You either do something really well, or you don't do it. No in-between in this business. The competition will eat you.
I'm getting really confused...I thought you were distracted from the music essentially because this specific video representation was "wrong"?
Lev and I were already in agreement. There's nothing "wrong" in this case except for my personal problem. I just pointed out a possible problem with projects of this type, not with this particular video. Let's just let it rest, OK?