Scarbo

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Finally!!!  Woohoo!  Two down one to go!

So I gotta do this one for next jury right?

And I started it...

It's hella awkward!!!  

Like Ravel put in harmonies that DON'T EVEN  EXIST!  Like on the top of the third page, the left hand has this weird ass arpeggio that goes like this...  fgbfgbfgb etc...  What the *** is an fgb arpeggio?!

And aside from that, there's other sh*t makes no sense!  And it's not that it makes no sense, it makes no type of sense,  like how the heck does both the right and left hand consist of only 16th notes but there's like five more notes in the left hand than the right hand?  Are you supposed to expect me to believe that both hands are in the same time signature and there's an unequal amount of notes despite the fact they're the same note values?  Nah man, that's some bullshit right there.  I'm not goin.

And how come I just started the third page and I'm already on like freaking measure 9000?  Jesus you don't have to freaking mark a measure every three notes!

And how come there's a bagillion different ways to finger everything!

And how come its freaking like 20 pages but it's only like 8 in a half minutes long?!

And why the heck is everything so damn fast?!



We're not gonna get along here...


No but seriously though, any tips?  I don't have a teacher till like next year.  Lol okay, till like 29 days from now.

[chicoscalco]

Like Ravel put in scales that DON'T EVEN  EXIST!  Like on the top of the third page, the left hand has this weird ass scale that goes like this...  fgbfgbfgb etc...  What the *** is an fgb scale?!

You tell me  Pardon me, but isn't this an arpeggio? lol I mean... yeah. Fa Sol Si doesn't make for a very consistent scale.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

You tell me  Pardon me, but isn't this an arpeggio? lol I mean... yeah. Fa Sol Si doesn't make for a very consistent scale.

Whatever man arpeggio!  You know what I mean!

[chopin2015]

Finally!!!  Woohoo!  Two down one to go!

So I gotta do this one for next jury right?

And I started it...

It's hella awkward!!!  

Like Ravel put in harmonies that DON'T EVEN  EXIST!  Like on the top of the third page, the left hand has this weird ass arpeggio that goes like this...  fgbfgbfgb etc...  What the *** is an fgb arpeggio?!

And aside from that, there's other sh*t makes no sense!  And it's not that it makes no sense, it makes no type of sense,  like how the heck does both the right and left hand consist of only 16th notes but there's like five more notes in the left hand than the right hand?  Are you supposed to expect me to believe that both hands are in the same time signature and there's an unequal amount of notes despite the fact they're the same note values?  Nah man, that's some bullshit right there.  I'm not goin.

And how come I just started the third page and I'm already on like freaking measure 9000?  Jesus you don't have to freaking mark a measure every three notes!

And how come there's a bagillion different ways to finger everything!

And how come its freaking like 20 pages but it's only like 8 in a half minutes long?!

And why the heck is everything so damn fast?!



We're not gonna get along here...


No but seriously though, any tips?  I don't have a teacher till like next year.  Lol okay, till like 29 days from now.

fgb=inverted whole tone arpeggio?   i mean...inverted half augmented triad? 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

fgb=inverted whole tone arpeggio?   i mean...inverted half augmented triad? 

what is a whole tone arpeggio?!

And isn't a half augment triad just a major triad?

[chopin2015]

what is a whole tone arpeggio?!

And isn't a half augment triad just a major triad?

hahahah at the half augmented triad being a major triad. unless you invert the triad before augmenting ...or something wacky like that.so maybe it's a triple diminished major triad...

im just kidding ya.

you know what, to tell you the truth...

I don't have the score with me, for the holidays. i only brought my current books. And I was too lazy to pull up the score online. :/

wait what

a minor triad would be the half augmented one...if we're talking about something that started out diminished, naturally...

not in a minor, but given a single triad... (although, maybe in a minor...)

(i'm not high, btw)

maybe provide a pic of the arpeggio?

[nanabush]

That left hand arpeggio is very strange… it sounds like a little glitch in the piece it's so fast!  On top of it, the right hand has a pretty nasty stretch, playing that theme in an octave now.

I wouldn't get too into the nitty gritty of overanalyzing a left hand passage that lasts less than 2 seconds, but it is likely something along the lines of an inverted G7, or maybe (considering the right hand) some weird whole tone thing…. either way, it fits in his harmonic context, and it's effective haha.

If you played Ondine haha, then you've seen PLENTY of polyrhythmic nastiness.  Think of the climax in Ondine… like 7/6, 9/7, 5/8, whatever you want, he probably threw it in there!!

I probably got about 4 pages into Scarbo before throwing in the towel (was not part of the rep I was learning… I just had 2 hours to kill and wanted to try something daring lol).  Those arpeggios won't get you… it's making them actually sound GOOD that'll get you.  Even at half tempo, it's so hard keeping your hands up to each other, and you have to get this demonic skittering theme to cut through on top of it.  It's a completely wacko piece.

Try the part about 20 seconds before the [first] BIG climactic chord section all the way into it in Scarbo… now THAT is some absurd writing (in a good way…)

[pianoman53]

how unique, a rant.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I need right hand fingerings for measures 94-101.

That part is soo awkward!  

Or actually as a matter of fact...

Would anyone be kind enough to send me a score with all their fingerings in it?

Thanks.

EDIT:

Nah 94-101 is fine. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

If you played Ondine haha, then you've seen PLENTY of polyrhythmic nastiness.  Think of the climax in Ondine… like 7/6, 9/7, 5/8, whatever you want, he probably threw it in there!!

Dude everything fits nicely in the Ondine except for that freaking climax!  It makes NOO sense!!!

And neither does 76-79!

[chopin2015]

I need right hand fingerings for measures 94-101.

That part is soo awkward!  

Or actually as a matter of fact...

Would anyone be kind enough to send me a score with all their fingerings in it?

Thanks.

EDIT:

Nah 94-101 is fine.  

sure, I will send you those bars tomorrow. I have the score with the fingerings, but it is at my apartment where I am not, for another week. Richard Dowling of Houston, TX just came out with a new editing of the fingering of the entire Gaspard de la nuit. It is affordable, as well as his Faure ballade, which was originally written for 1 piano, but Franz Liszt suggested it was too much for 1 and should be edited into piano and orchestra. Dowling put it back together for piano...

but yes, don't have my score published by durand so I will look what's up tomorrow.

[birba]

I've been at this for the last 40 years and you've got until your next jury?!  Not fair...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I've been at this for the last 40 years and you've got until your next jury?!  Not fair...

Ah so you've been at it for 40 years huh?  That's great!  You'll be a great resource for help!

I'm having a problem with fingering this:



I have like four different fingerings for this and I'm changing every measure and it's making me mad!  I can't seem to get away with the thumb on the last b flat.  And thumbs on black keys are a BIG no no!  I imagine it would be a problem trying to get it fast.  So how the heck do you finger this?  

And...

This:



I have no idea how to play both hands together without the left hand catching up to the right hand and the right hand going way ahead of the left hand.  The right hand is 16 notes and the left hand is 32 notes, so pragmatically, it would make much more sense for the left hand to have twice the amount of notes the right hand does.  BUT IT DOESN'T!!!


Thanks Birba.


And thanks to anyone else who feels like helping someone out.

[birba]

There's really only one feasible fingering for that.  535213 535213 etc.  And yes, one does play  black keys with the thumb.  Uh, duh!
That other passage you have to study hands separately with metronome up to speed then put hands together accenting the begining of the second measure.  It works out. 
These are the easy passages.  Have you started
 the difficult ones yet?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

There's really only one feasible fingering for that.  535213 535213 etc.  And yes, one does play  black keys with the thumb.  Uh, duh!
That other passage you have to study hands separately with metronome up to speed then put hands together accenting the begining of the second measure.  It works out.  
These are the easy passages.  Have you started
 the difficult ones yet?

I only got up to 232 so I don't know how much harder it gets yet.

[chopin2015]

I emailed you back! if you ever have immediate questions with this piece, ever, or any piece, feel free to contact me, make sure to include the snapshots and the exact question or problem, as you did!

I actually really enjoy doing that, this is real old-fashioned fun!

[birba]

Why not answer here under the topic?  I want to be in on it, too!

[chopin2015]

birba, I am pretty sure I gave him the same fingerings. 5352135

and as for the other picture, since it was not a fingering problem but a hands together problem, I told him to skip counting the 32nd notes and to count the 8th note as a beat. so counting the fastest notes starting with left hand 8th notes, 16th notes counted as 8th and 32nd notes counted as 16ths, the music would sound like this when counted at each fastest note

1 and 2 and a 3 e and a...

[chopin2015]

i change my mind. the fingering is 525212 back to 5

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Starting on 256 ending on 263...

Do I have to roll those right hand chords?  Or can I just play it like a normal chord.  It's going by so fast I don't think anyone will notice.  And I'm sure other people do it too. 

Like how EVERYONE cheats that weird scaley thing on the first page.

And on measures 258, 260, and 262, the left hand has that g# and d#...  Do you play both of them with the left hand or take the d# with the right hand?  It's not really much of an issue, I was just wondering.




...
...
...

And that last thing I asked you about the fingering for the left hand, I do 515213.  Because after every two or three measures it changes the figure does this weird ass thing where it changes a bit and it forces you to use 4 on the bottom note, and I'm lazy so I don't feel like stretching too far so I just use 1. 

[chopin2015]

in the rolly chords, I would just focus on the melody note, and squeeze the other notes of the chord in, later.

[birba]

1. The fingering i suggested is good for me because the interval e flat b flat is smaller than b flat g flat, and changing the interval using the same fingering screws me up.  5152 would be absolutely impossible for me at that speed.
2. The d sharp gsharp acciaccature is fast but you definitely hear a difference if you play them together.
3. I have no idea what this scaly thing on the first page is.
4. You must have a monstrous hand to be able to divide the gsharp dsharp between two hands and jump two octaves to reach the dsharp with the right pinky!  For me that's far from facilitating the issue. No, i play it like it's written.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

4. You must have a monstrous hand to be able to divide the gsharp dsharp between two hands and jump two octaves to reach the dsharp with the right pinky!  For me that's far from facilitating the issue. No, i play it like it's written.

Two octaves?

[gore234]

The piece is called scarbo which is based on poem so of course its going to have diminished chords, augmented chords, minor/major seconds, tri tones, chromatic notes, diminished scales and maybe whole tone scales and all kinds of stuff in it.  It is supposed to sound mysterious and dark.

from Wikipedia: this movement depicts the nighttime mischief of a small fiend or goblin, making pirouettes, flitting in and out of the darkness, disappearing and suddenly reappearing. Its uneven flight, hitting and scratching against the walls, casting a growing shadow in the moonlight, creates a nightmarish scene for the observer lying in his bed. With its repeated notes and two terrifying climaxes, this is the high point of technical difficulty of the three movements. Technical difficulties include repeated notes in both hands, and double-note scales in major seconds in the right hand.

[birba]

Rach, i'm curious as to how fast you intend to play this piece.  A final fingering has to fit the speed.  Considering the minum mm would be 76 to the measure, you're not going to have time to play the dsharp with the thumb, jump two octaves and play the "rolled chords" as you call them the way it's written.  Two very fast acciaccaturas... At least, i can't.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Alright so I'm stuck.  The problem is the right hand starting on beat 3 of 286 and ending on beat one of 287.  It does this weird jump thing and I can't get that fast enough.  I was thinking of helping out with the left hand by playing the a# and f# on 287, but I don't know if that's such a good idea.

Actually that whole chord scaley thing sucks.  There's quite a few ways to play this so how the heck do you guys suggest doing it?

And I tried doing the other chord scaley things that come after it.  They all suck.



Ooh and another thing!  On measure 268 and 272, the right hand has a g NATURAL in there, but it sounds waaaaaay overly wrong!  Is it a typo and it should actually be a g#, or is my score right and I'm going crazy.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Rach, i'm curious as to how fast you intend to play this piece.  A final fingering has to fit the speed.  Considering the minum mm would be 76 to the measure, you're not going to have time to play the dsharp with the thumb, jump two octaves and play the "rolled chords" as you call them the way it's written.  Two very fast acciaccaturas... At least, i can't.

I changed my mind, I'm doing the d# with the left hand.

[j_menz]

that whole chord scaley thing

the other chord scaley

Your theory teacher must be so proud. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Your theory teacher must be so proud.  

Dude I freaking love theory!!!

And you're a professional pianist, so you should be able to help me out with that last question I have concerning those chord scaley things.

[j_menz]

you should be able to help me out with that last question I have concerning those chord scaley things.

I've never played it (not a huge Ravel fan, tbh). At first glance, my suggestion is to get a third hand. Possibly a fourth. Though I don't understand what you mean by a "chord scaley thing" in the first place.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I've never played it

So?

You're a professional pianist so why can't you just sight read it?

Quit being so lazy and pass down the tree of knowledge to the next generation!  Or something like that...

[j_menz]

why can't you just sight read it?

I loathe sight reading pieces with lots of crossing hands. I hate trying to untie my fingers and arms afterwards.

Though I see that Ravel (unusually for him) managed to largely stick to two staves, which is a plus.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

.

Though I see that Ravel (unusually for him) managed to largely stick to two staves, which is a plus.

Dude playing in three staves makes you feel soooo cool!  You can trick people into thinking you're a good sight reader lol. 

Learn something with three staves and then just play it with the music in front of you taking periodical glances at the score. 

That's how I managed to get away with my first semester of college without sight reading anything but also not damaging my reputation as a sight reader at the same time.

#teamnosightreading

[j_menz]

Learn something with three staves and then just play it with the music in front of you taking periodical glances at the score. 

As I've mentioned before, I don't memorise anything. I would be actually reading it.

I can read three staves, though don't like it. Recently read a piece with (several pages of) four! Suspect I missed a few notes. 

[cabbynum]

As I've mentioned before, I don't memorise anything. I would be actually reading it.

I can read three staves, though don't like it. Recently read a piece with (several pages of) four! Suspect I missed a few notes. 

Alkan op.33?

[birba]

Alright so I'm stuck.  The problem is the right hand starting on beat 3 of 286 and ending on beat one of 287.  It does this weird jump thing and I can't get that fast enough.  I was thinking of helping out with the left hand by playing the a# and f# on 287, but I don't know if that's such a good idea.

Actually that whole chord scaley thing sucks.  There's quite a few ways to play this so how the heck do you guys suggest doing it?

And I tried doing the other chord scaley things that come after it.  They all suck.



Ooh and another thing!  On measure 268 and 272, the right hand has a g NATURAL in there, but it sounds waaaaaay overly wrong!  Is it a typo and it should actually be a g#, or is my score right and I'm going crazy.

I think I finally get what you mean by "chord scaly thing"- Nope, it's not easy.  Doesn't actually sound like a bad idea to divide a few two note chords.  If I divided it though, I would only take the eflat and the fsharp of the last two 16th notes with 2-1 of the left hand and the the asharp bnatural with 2-1 of the right hand and then go on as it's written after that.
And you're right.  I had never noticed that typo in all my years of playing this.  It's definitely g-sharp.

[j_menz]

Alkan op.33?

Nope, but there was an Alkan influence at work.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Starting at measure 304 shouldn't that low a flat be a b flat?

B flat sounds better.

[cabbynum]

Nope, but there was an Alkan influence at work.

What piece?

[j_menz]

What piece?

Piccola Fantasiettina Canonica

[birba]

Starting at measure 304 shouldn't that low a flat be a b flat?

B flat sounds better.

No, that's definitely aflat.  bflat sounds BOOOring...

[gore234]

[rachmaninoff_forever]

That synthesia has a lot of wrong notes.

[gore234]

It does? sorry about that.  Its fun to watch tho.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Alright gotta keep pushing it!  Almost done!!!  Just another 200 something more measures to go!

That being said, I have a question about this...



The right hand starting on measure 356 ending on the first beat of 358.

How the heck do you play that major third, then that f minor chord, and quickly that major third again?  That happens twice for the first two systems and then for the last system it does a major third, an e flat mirror chord and then another minor third but in a different position.  For the first system I take the a flat with the left hand, but after that my right hand is all on its own and I can't seem to find a comfortable fingering in order to play it up to speed.

Boy...

It sure is really tempting to cheat and just not play those bottom notes.

[visitor]

Alright gotta keep pushing it!  Almost done!!!  Just another 200 something more measures to go!

That being said, I have a question about this...



The right hand starting on measure 356 ending on the first beat of 358.

How the heck do you play that major third, then that f minor chord, and quickly that major third again?  That happens twice for the first two systems and then for the last system it does a major third, an e flat mirror chord and then another minor third but in a different position.  For the first system I take the a flat with the left hand, but after that my right hand is all on its own and I can't seem to find a comfortable fingering in order to play it up to speed.

Boy...

It sure is really tempting to cheat and just not play those bottom notes.

edit

[visitor]

Edit

just give it all to the RH and only let the LH deal w the d then d flat etc. You'll pivot around that maj third to move the hand from one fm to the next inversion

Hmm yeah I like this better disregard the previous suggy if you caught it before the hard edit.

[visitor]

fgb=inverted whole tone arpeggio?   i mean...inverted half augmented triad? 

It's just an implied dominant 7th without the fifth which is pretty legit g. B. d. F. Minus d.  It weakens the pull for the ear to want it to resolve to c e g. Or a c.  E. 

[birba]

That's hard?!  I suppose you could divide it the way you said, but this all seems like much ado about nothing.  Practise only 2-1-2  2-1-2  2-1-2, then 4-5-4  4-5-4  4-5-4
                                                                   2-3-2  2-3-2  2-3-2
then 4-5-4  4-5-4  4-5-4  then  2-3-2  2-3-2  2-3-2  then the way it's written.
          1        1        1                1        1        1

It goes without saying the thumb has to be very free and supple.

[chopin2015]

Alright gotta keep pushing it!  Almost done!!!  Just another 200 something more measures to go!

That being said, I have a question about this...



The right hand starting on measure 356 ending on the first beat of 358.

How the heck do you play that major third, then that f minor chord, and quickly that major third again?  That happens twice for the first two systems and then for the last system it does a major third, an e flat mirror chord and then another minor third but in a different position.  For the first system I take the a flat with the left hand, but after that my right hand is all on its own and I can't seem to find a comfortable fingering in order to play it up to speed.

Boy...

It sure is really tempting to cheat and just not play those bottom notes.

do the third with finger 2 & 4 and the octave chord with 135

the f minor you would just play with your left hand?