Advice on Purchase

[andy1976]

Hi!

We have three sons – ages 7, 5 and 3 – and are planning to start piano lessons in the next weeks for our 7 year old son. A great teacher (music student) is already coming to our home to do the lessons for our neighbor’s 8 year old daughter – so this part is already organized. But of course we first need a piano! 

My wife and I know nothing about pianos. I did some internet research but the variety of different brands, opinions and technical details is very confusing for me. For the purchase the following facts / use case should be considered:
- Our budget is $ 5.000 - $ 7.000
- My wife does not like digital pianos (it’s more a feeling than based on ‘hard facts’)
- We need to have the option of having a headset jack
- The piano will be mainly used by our sons – maybe I will take also some lessons if there is enough time left
- We prefer to buy a solid new one instead of second-hand
- We do not have the space for a full-sized / grand piano but a vertical piano would be perfect

We would highly appreciate if you can recommend us 3-5 solid pianos that are fitting to our ‘use case’. Next step would be then to search for a dealer and listen to your recommended pianos directly in the store.

Thanks in advance.

Andy

[jimbo320]

I play a few pianos and keyboards and IMHO a Yamaha C5 keyboard would be a good choice.
The keys feel quite like an acoustic and the sound replicates the C5FX full  acoustic well.
Another one to look at is the DGX650...

Good hunting... 

[hfmadopter]

Not to be abrasive but your wife most likely has not experienced a digital piano costing perhaps as much as the low end of your budget. That is except in recording on the radio etc, when you think you are hearing a grand piano it's most likely digital.

In terms of acoustic, you could price around for a U series silent Yamaha, I believe Kawai also offers a factory install of a silent system for their pianos as well. Either are good choices but I'll let you do the shopping and see where the pricing falls. I say that because if I were looking today for a piano to fit the space of where an upright would fit I'd buy digital. Most likely a Kawai digital piano ( possibly Roland as well) that will have the cabinet of a console piano and the action very similar to a grand piano. $3200 US would get one with more than all the features your kids will ever need and it will play much  like a grand, down to the wooden key cores ( model CA95 and above from Kawai). I suggest you and the wife just have a look at the Kawai site where there are demos and sound tracks  available. My wife was anti digital as well, since I own a 5'11" grand piano. I was investigating digital for silent playing, I ended up with a keyboard ( the Kawai MP6 hooked up to a reasonably decent sound system I cobbled together) and I now play that more than the grand piano and I can do it at 3 am silently if I choose to and often do. And the wife loves it. She has come in from the kitchen many times to see which piano I'm playing. I tell her it's easy to know, I'm playing the one that never ever goes out of tune !!

When you purchase an acoustic piano don't forget the annual or even twice annual tuning charges and general maintenance of the instrument. I'm completely not a fan of upright pianos, so possibly not the best person to be answering your query in the first place but damn, a digital does not require tuning or annual maintenance. If I'm going to that trouble and expense then give me a grand and if not give me a digital that acts like a grand. Many people do not feel as I do though but many also do. It's nice having sympathetic string resonance of an acoustic instrument, it really is until it's out of tune.

[delphian2001]

The Yamaha B2 Silent fits all your requirements:

• Brand new and easily within your budget
• Acoustic piano with option to play silently and 2 sets of headphones can be used to listen
• Upright and compact
• A major popular brand you can trust

[bronnestam]

But the Silent pianos are quite expensive, aren't they?

You should not be afraid of digitals. There are many of them that are excellent in these days, and your children will probably love the option of switching voices on the piano from time to time. Another big advantage of digitals is that they are always perfectly tuned which is IMPORTANT when the kids develop their pitch. So I just suggest that you go to a retailer and try them out before you make up your mind.

There are also many digitals with beautiful cabinets that neither look, nor feel like toys. I have a digital Yamaha baby grand (Clavinova) but the upright Clavinovas also look very nice and have the same functions, although smaller loudspeakers. I bought this piano 14 months ago and it has been my pride, pleasure and joy ever since.

[chicoscalco]

I don't have much to add to this topic other than backing the Yamaha suggestion. I've tried it, and it is really good. And no, it's not very expensive.

I don't see the benefit in trying to push digital pianos to this user. He already stated clearly that he doesn't want digitals. No matter how good they are, they can NEVER be the same as an acoustic piano. They are good in their own right, but comparing both is ridiculous. It's apples and oranges, and OP stated clearly that he's interested in apples.

[bronnestam]

Nobody is pushing. None of us is a piano retailer anyway so nobody is trying to sell something here. I think.  

I just tell the OP what I know, and he may do whatever he wants with that information.
I also want to add that I took my first piano lessons and got my first own piano 36 years ago, and I have played on many, many, many acoustic pianos of all kinds. Old, new, broken, excellent, terrible, big, small. And also on keyboards, bad digitals, good digitals, school organs, electric organs, cembalos - but not big church organs, silent pianos and hybrid pianos. Still, my opinions are just opinions, and I would NEVER recommend anyone to buy a piano without having tested it carefully, and in person, first. Or would anyone here buy a car without making a test drive first?

What I'm trying to say is that recommendations from others are not very useful because you will have your own opinion nevertheless, and it may differ very much from what the "experts" say.    

[chicoscalco]

Nobody is pushing. None of us is a piano retailer anyway so nobody is trying to sell something here. I think.  

I just tell the OP what I know, and he may do whatever he wants with that information.
I also want to add that I took my first piano lessons and got my first own piano 36 years ago, and I have played on many, many, many acoustic pianos of all kinds. Old, new, broken, excellent, terrible, big, small. And also on keyboards, bad digitals, good digitals, school organs, electric organs, cembalos - but not big church organs, silent pianos and hybrid pianos. Still, my opinions are just opinions, and I would NEVER recommend anyone to buy a piano without having tested it carefully, and in person, first. Or would anyone here buy a car without making a test drive first?

What I'm trying to say is that recommendations from others are not very useful because you will have your own opinion nevertheless, and it may differ very much from what the "experts" say.    

I agree 100% with you on that.

[richard black]

I did see you said you would prefer new to second hand, but actually I would suggest buying a good second hand piano for about $4-5k and _also_ a keyboard (maybe one you can take of its folding stand and store upright against the wall to save space) for late night practice. That way you get a decent musical instrument plus the option of doing basic finger-work on a keyboard without disturbing people.

[indianajo]

Frankly the best console pianos are second hand and thirty to one hundred years old.
Four years ago, I bought a 1941 Steinway 40 with some veneer damage, and my physician friend bought a "superior" Pearl River.  I heard the Pearl River last week: it doesn't sing like my Steinway.  His superior piano has broken three of the same bass string in four years, the piano is still in warrenty on paper, but the company refuses to send anybody out without invoices for the three new strings.  My physician friend runs a paperless house, so the superior modern piano is going on e-bay for the next sap.  
My Steinway, by contrast, after three years of hard practice, is beginning to need tuning again. It took seven tuning stages to get it up to 440, but it has been stable as a rock since then. It has a  superior wood pin block instead of modern plywood.  
Brands I recommend, from production years 1939 to 1980 only, are Steinway, Sohmer, Baldwin, Hamilton by Baldwin, Wurlitzer, Everett, Mason & Hamlin, Chickering.  <39" pianos are suitable only for the student in the first five years, after that they are too slow.  But 36" Baldwin Acrosonics and a Mason & Hamlin I tried out had nice tones for pianos under $100.  
I think the tone of the Yamaha consoles I have heard and played are inferior, and the middle pedal being a volume softener instead of a lower half sustain, I think is hor** ******.  I need the lower half sustain for a piece I am rehearsing now.  
I played on a 1970's Kawai once that sounded pretty good, had decent action, and was probably made in NC.  
Especially on a Steinway, check inside that the middle hammer felts are not too short, and the hammers don't wiggle on the pivots.  These pianos are often heavily worn by continual student use in schools.  Check that no strings are broken, no parts look mouse eaten, the wood back is no cracked.  Check that one note sounds good, although old neglected pianos that are way out of tune are often the best bargains.  With two fingers alternating, hit one note repeatedly to see how fast the piano action is at restriking the same key.  Superior pianos are just as fast as any concert grand you hear on records.  
If you can get someone to play softly as possible to see if the action is consistent.  I played a nineties production Wurlitzer at a student's house, and this was its failing.  The old brand names of Wurlitzer Baldwin et al were sold in the eighties to global corporations that used the brand to import **** pianos from second world countries.  
The 1970's Wurlitzer I played 12/15/13 at a former church I attended is still a superior piano, and a joy to play.  I played a sixties Baldwin Acrosonic 39 at another church 12/7/13 and that piano is also a joy to play.  Baldwin Acrosonics were about the loudest brightest console pianos I have ever played. It really filled the fellowship hall.  If you prefer something softer buy a Hamilton by Baldwin, that was their small room line.  
I played a Yamaha digital 88 key board 12/26/13 and while the $200 midi samples were extremely good, it took a $400 computer to run the sound generation. My friend's $400 sound system was not nearly up to the task of reproducing piano sound accurately.  I paid $600 the pair just for some speakers accurate on piano, Peavey SP2-XT's.   It was a $1500 Yamaha keyboard my friend said, but he didn't know the model #.  It has heavier weighted keys on the bass than the treble. The keys were actually heavier to play than my Steinway or Sohmer. 
Be aware if you buy a plastic piano, the rubber key contacts have a life limited both by repetitions, and the action of oxygen on the rubber.  So far, many models of Yamaha, they are supporting with replacement rubber parts. But Yamaha has deleted key parts from inventory on their organ line.    A wood piano, you can probably buy replacement parts for 100 more years. 

[liszt85]

Frankly the best console pianos are second hand and thirty to one hundred years old.

No they aren't. A 30 year old Yamaha P22 cannot be as good as a brand new Yamaha P22 for example. Now a well maintained 30 year old Steinway may be better than a poorly or event decently maintained 1 year old Pearl River. So blanket statements about this aren't possible. The condition of a piano depends on its history, the quality of materials and craftsmanship, etc.

For the OP, suggestions to look at the silent series acoustic uprights make most sense (Yamaha and Kawai are the popular choice being relatively affordable). I have taught children of ages 5-8 and I always recommend buying an acoustic piano. A digitally simulated weighted action is very different from a real acoustic action. I know because I played a Yamaha Clavinova for over 5 years in my dorm room in college. I now own a Yamaha P22 acoustic. Digital and acoustic pianos really are apples and oranges as another poster here pointed out. Anybody who makes the contrary claim is misinformed or doesn't have sufficient pianistic experience to feel the difference. I recently visited a dealership and played their best digital piano. I played a Chopin etude and the owner told me immediately that no digital piano would serve my purposes just because of the limitations of what a digital piano could do.

For children starting out, obviously a digital piano should do just fine for the first couple of years. However, if they keep up with lessons and advance rapidly, you will soon find your teacher asking you to get an acoustic piano for your kids (if that teacher is any good). Arguments about maintenance costs and tuning costs are valid of course, but then if those were your primary concerns, the piano is not for you. Maybe play the guitar (or the recorder or a harmonica) which is easier to maintain?