Levels of control?

[d3boy2002]

Hi!

I am currently looking to trade-in my current Kohler and Cambell millenium for a Yamaha or a similar piano of good touch, price range probably around 8,000-10,000$.

I was wondering about how much 'control' I can achieve with these pianos, Kohler and Cambell, Yamaha, Kawaii, Essex etc. as I would like to practice as though I were practicing to play a Steinway. To me, sound isn't as important as touch, I don't really care for sound, as ironic as that is!

So would I be better off buying a Yamaha GC1 control or practice wise, or should I just keep my current grand piano as it is? I feel as if the Kohler that I have is too mellow/hard touched, inconsistent, and has un-needed amount of sustain. Every Yamaha I've played has had outstanding touch, very light, consistent, and playable.

Thanks!

[hfmadopter]

If you own the Millennium now, I would start with investigating having it voiced and regulated to your taste. The Millennium has very decent components in it, or that series does and it should be able to suit your need I would think. Just depends on how demanding you are speaking of I suppose.

I can think of an exception though, a Shigeru Kawai. I'm just not sure you can get it even after trade in in your price range.

[d3boy2002]

Thank you for your input!
I just looked up tone regulation and it seems like I could benefit a lot from it.
I will try that out before anything else then! 

[hfmadopter]

Thank you for your input!
I just looked up tone regulation and it seems like I could benefit a lot from it.
I will try that out before anything else then! 

Yes, so find a tech who comes highly recommended and sit and explain to him exactly what it is you are looking for from your piano. Let him evaluate that information a little bit and see if he feels that's something that he can do and will work for you. If he doesn't want to take that little extra time then find someone else. A good competent tech will listen to you.

[indianajo]

If you are playing for yourself, I don't know why you don't buy a quality used console for under $1000.  Grands project the sound out to the right to the audience, the Steinway console I own has holes in the front to project the sound towards me. If you are training to play a grand to a concert hall you may need an exceptional grand, but most in the piano hobby are like me that have to search to find an audience.  
Consoles touch is often a lot lighter and the great ones are very consistent at with a low force requirement.  Playing one is the only way to tell what you have got, however.  My 1941 Steinway 40 (height) has light touch  and the 1982 Sohmer 39 has somewhat light touch, both great consistency at lower volumes.  The Baldwin Acrosonic 40 I played a dinner last month at was great, although much louder than the previous two pianos.  That went over well in a 200 seat fellowship hall.  
I've played other consoles that had mediocre soft performance consistency to just plain bad.  Noticely bad were a 90's production Wurlitzer 39 at a studen't house, and a Horugal 39 I tuned this holiday season at a relative's house.  Just the name doesn't predict the condition. Many school used Steinways are beat to death in the middle notes.  

[d3boy2002]

Hello!

You're right, I'm mostly going to play for myself, but I do have a small audience every so often that I like to prepare very well for. Maybe I'm reaching too high here but I've been hearing a lot of music played by great pianists and it seems like they can all reach an extremely quiet sound and still be very consistent. I know this has a lot to do with skill, but I've played on Yamahas that have had exceptional consistency compared to my KC. So I'd expect more expensive models to be even more consistent etc.etc. and I want to make that kind of sound consistently as well.

[hfmadopter]

I know this has a lot to do with skill, but I've played on Yamahas that have had exceptional consistency compared to my KC. So I'd expect more expensive models to be even more consistent etc.etc. and I want to make that kind of sound consistently as well.

You have a grand , you like a grand, stick with the grand. Have a tech check it it out and if you are not able to get what you want from your piano then make the switch. You know what you like in action and tone, either a tech can make that happen with your existing piano or you need one ( piano) that can do that for you. You seem to like Yamaha, so be it, you like what you like.

As to indianajo's comment, I have never played a console or upright that has the action of a decent grand. It's a whole different mechanics involved, grands throw the hammers up to the strings, the rebound is completely different, the whole action more direct. Yes some are heavy, some are light but either way, in my experience it's a different feel from upright action. When a person expects this then most likely they won't be happy with the action of an upright. No snobbery here but the two instruments are just different. Also with a grand , sound isn't just projected sideways into the room, it rafts forward, even bowls you over at times. It also projects down to the floor off the sound board from under the piano. With the top down you have control over how mellow it sounds, I like to play mine with the top up on the low stick, always have, that's good for the room it's in, the tone isn't too muddy there nor too ear shattering as it can be with the top fully up..

No if you have room for a grand, own the grand of your choice. The OP already has one, why downscale ? Trade sideways if you must but have the KC checked out first is my suggestion.

[d3boy2002]

Thanks for the reply!

It's not so much what I like, I don't care. I'm basically asking (I probably didn't word it correctly, sorry) whether practicing on a somewhat more consistent (easier) action would be better for the long run, or practicing to the best of the ability of the grand I have and then performing on a better quality piano afterwards.

I haven't got around to the maintenance yet, happy new year by the way!, but I will try and update the progress for anyone that might be interested in this topic.

I agree that an upright/console and grand, no matter the feel, are too different. I like that you use the word downscale instead of downgrade. But since grands are more applicable, I would prefer to practice on a grand.

Can't wait to have this KC looked at, I admit to not having maintained it as I should.

[hfmadopter]

I haven't got around to the maintenance yet, happy new year by the way!, but I will try and update the progress for anyone that might be interested in this topic.

Can't wait to have this KC looked at, I admit to not having maintained it as I should.

Yes, it should make quite a difference then. And yes, I for one would be interested to hear about the result of a tech visit. What his conclusion is and hopefully about the resolved issue.

[d3boy2002]

Hello,

A tuner came in today just now, apparently the piano was half a semi-tone below concert pitch haha. No wonder it sounded so awful! Sound is much better now.

He didn't have a look at regulating or anything yet, we had to reschedule. But he did mention that the piano would benefit a lot from regulation.

Anywho, the sound is much better, I gave the piano way too little credit on the sound before!

[hfmadopter]

Excellent news, wait till it regulated you should be very pleased !

[d3boy2002]

I was told there are two types of regulating, one where a tech comes into my home, and one where I bring the piano to the workshop. If my piano is only 7 years old, is it worth it to take it to a shop?

[hfmadopter]

I was told there are two types of regulating, one where a tech comes into my home, and one where I bring the piano to the workshop. If my piano is only 7 years old, is it worth it to take it to a shop?

It seems unlikely that you would need in shop services with a 7 yo piano unless you really wail the daylights out of it 8 hours a day. What did the tech suggest doing?

[d3boy2002]

His wording was kind of confusing 

He said that he could do minor adjustments, and that if I wanted major adjustments I'd have to take it to the shop. The piano hasn't been played too hard, maybe 1 hour a day for 7 years average.
So I guess I might try having him or another more experienced tech come and do some minor adjustments, but I'm really leaning on trading for a different grand (the build quality isn't what I'd expected, there are many small problems that are irritating me, that have amplified in the past years.)

But anyway, I'll update my progress!

[hfmadopter]

His wording was kind of confusing 

He said that he could do minor adjustments, and that if I wanted major adjustments I'd have to take it to the shop. The piano hasn't been played too hard, maybe 1 hour a day for 7 years average.
So I guess I might try having him or another more experienced tech come and do some minor adjustments, but I'm really leaning on trading for a different grand (the build quality isn't what I'd expected, there are many small problems that are irritating me, that have amplified in the past years.)

But anyway, I'll update my progress!

I see. If after it all you won't be happy with the instrument based on build or general workmanship, then it's  not really worth paying to have the work done.

[d3boy2002]

OK!  

I had a technician come over yesterday and this morning. He took the entire piano action to the workshop and he returned it within a day.

He fixed my pedals, redid my hammers/action, did more tuning (was out of tune again!).

All in all, it was a MASSIVE improvement! The touch is now beautiful, delicate, very consistent, and sounds fantastic!

Apparently, the bottom of the keys (the board the keys sit on) had bent inward slightly, causing the hammers and dampers to malfunction.

I didn't know that a piano could change so drastically within the timespan of a day. I went from hating this piano to loving it!

Best of luck, regulating goes a long way!
Ben

[hfmadopter]

OK!  

I had a technician come over yesterday and this morning. He took the entire piano action to the workshop and he returned it within a day.

He fixed my pedals, redid my hammers/action, did more tuning (was out of tune again!).

All in all, it was a MASSIVE improvement! The touch is now beautiful, delicate, very consistent, and sounds fantastic!

Apparently, the bottom of the keys (the board the keys sit on) had bent inward slightly, causing the hammers and dampers to malfunction.

I didn't know that a piano could change so drastically within the timespan of a day. I went from hating this piano to loving it!

Best of luck, regulating goes a long way!
Ben

I'm very glad to hear that you are pleased with your piano now !!
David