Back to topic:I have a friend who can only play from muscle memory. Once she start to learn it mentally, she snaps and can't play at all.Me, on the other hand, is terrified of knowing only with muscle memory. So everyone is different.But more generally speaking, there are 3 parts in learning: - intellectual: you know the form, what notes to start on, the harmony, etc. - muscle memory: you get it by yourself, and you cant really play fast without it. - imagination: you know how it sounds, what the piece is about....Try to embrace all of them in your learning, and experiment with how much of every part you will need.
I got you right here...Learn some theory. Every problem with memory you have is SOLVED! Like ACTUALLY though! If you can do a harmonic and structural analysis of the piece, then you're set. Don't just play it, study it.Because instead of just going through the motions (muscle memory), you actually know what the heck you're playing. Note how I put an emphasis on know... And muscle memory isn't a bad thing either. It's just that you don't wanna survive on only muscle memory. Cause when you get on stage and your nerves get to you, your muscle memory is the first thing to go!Also another thing that helps is just knowing how the piece sounds in your head. Report complete... #feelingon
I know I must work in short sections, so I learn one section with these mixed techniques, and then I learn the next ... and in this way it is not that difficult. Just boring.
But how is it boring to memorize?! To make music in your own head is the most amazing thing there is! Sounds that are almost impossible to make at the instrument is a piece of cake in your mind. You only have to think of both notes and sound at the same time. Bot boring at all!
I guess I should elaborate...I always find it extremely boring and against my nature to try to stick things that I can already understand and do into my mind so that I can retrieve them later. My mind likes to create and encounter new things, not repeat something already done...
The better those skills got, the more I loved to play chamber music, and the lonelier I felt playing solo my memory. I still play solo, of course, but I like to have the score with me.
Spend some time really focusing progress in one area of your musicianship. I would suggest starting with rhythm. Forget about piano-music in order to really address this issue. Work with single-line music.Get really good at doing the following: Count the time signature out loud with your voice (for common time, it should sound like one AND two AND three AND four AND, etc), and clap the rhythm of the music with your hands! Start with easy things... folk songs, pop songs, whatever floats your boat, really. The key is that you are successfully controlling multiple parameters within a limited framework. In this case, we have removed musical pitch from the equation entirely, so that we can focus on building our rhythmic skills in a vacuum of sorts. As soon as we add in the vast horizontal space and multitude of notes that the keyboard provides us with, there will be far too many parameters to control unless our musicianship is advanced to an extremely high level. Spend a good amount of time on this, instead of simply playing the solo pieces you wish to hear in the same old manner every day and calling it 'practicing', and you will make great leaps forward!
Remember that perfection itself is imperfection!It sounds to me as though you are trying to read scores that are beyond the level of your musicianship in terms of their complexity. Never fear! Find scores that are simple enough that you can play them from beginning to end flawlessly without looking down at your hands (not necessarily perfect, but flawless as in meaning average Joe from off the street wouldn't be able to detect any actual flaws in your performance).
Exactly...actively memorizing is boring. That's why I have tried everything else I can think of to avoid actively memorizing stuff. I mainly just relied on the type of memorizing that happens gradually without any effort. Unfortunately it just takes too long, I cannot stay with one short piece for months...I have been telling myself that I'm just unable to memorize by will but I guess that's not exactly true. I have been struggling with a piece which I just cannot play fluently with the score no matter how much I practice. My eyes simply can not handle it. And this is something I really need to learn before the first lesson. So a few days ago I started memorizing by trying to play the sections without the score and only dug it out when I really had to (which was quite often in the beginning) and forced myself to put it away right after checking the spot. And of course it works, after a few days I can almost get through the two pages without stopping. But it is really boring to do it this way...and boring is probably the worst thing I can think of...damn!
Hmm. You should be 'hearing' the correct notes in your mind before you actually play them. This way, if you play an incorrect note, it's either because you heard the note itself incorrectly, which is a musical error, OR, you heard the correct note, but played an incorrect note instead, which is a technical error.
Sorry, but that kind of "memorizing" is a recipe for disaster on the stage. Do you have extensive performance experience? I'd be surprised if you do. By mindlessly memorizing as you describe here, you are yet again relying mostly on muscle memory if you are not analyzing the piece thoroughly using music theory. On stage, assuming nerves are at play, muscle memory is the first to go. So you do not want to memorize by trial and error.
??One of the reasons this piece is so difficult to memorize is that it's 20th century and my modest theory knowledge does not help with the places where things go against the "usual". It also has phrases that are almost, but not quite identical...so it's really easy to forget which one I am doing...
Of course I cannot expect someone to understand who has not experienced this kind of messing up of the reality in the mind. But I think it's the main reason I've given up all instruments in the past, the frustration just grew to be too much. I have always wanted to play new music and a lot of music, not just practice the same thing over and over until I can drop the score. But it just doesn't work very well...sigh...
These are all signs of applying wrong learning techniques. So you would be well advised to reconsider what you've been thinking of as active memorization among other things. Do you have a teacher?
It can be a 20th century piece. It certainly isn't a random set of notes.
However, trying to play without looking at the score occasionally spot checking when you go wrong doesn't qualify as a sound memorization technique.
I really didn't write clearly enough:I never meant spot checking AFTER GOING WRONG...I meant taking the time to remember/figure it out first in the mind and only if not able to at all, look at the score and try to understand it better so that next time I would remember.And anyway, my method obviously works, because I can conclude after a short practice session that I now can play the piece from memory without trouble, which I could not do a few days ago
But that's in theory, we all work differently.
I am able to play my pieces very well when I'm alone in my house as well. However, I wouldn't claim that I'm confident that I'll play without memory lapses on stage in front of an audience.
Another test which eliminates the pitfall of muscle memory is to play the piece very, very slow.
Sure there are individual differences. However, there are commonalities across brains as well. If everybody were completely different from each other in how their brains worked. we wouldn't have a field called neuroscience. So common sense memory principles should work for the most part for everybody. Within those principles, how much each strategy works for different people might vary slightly across individuals. So saying that none of those tried and tested methods work for me without having SINCERELY tried them out is a sign of laziness, something that afflicts many amateur musicians possibly due to constraints on the time that they might get to devote to music. However, developing good learning habits will eventually save you time though it might take a while at the beginning. So patience is a virtue during the stage where you are developing these good practice and learning habits. Those who acquire them early on in life obviously find it easy later on. Those who try to acquire them later on in life are usually in a hurry and that is counterproductive. These are just general observations, not a comment directed at anybody personally because as outin rightly said, I do not know your circumstances and I do not know if you have worked seriously with a teacher trying to develop these tried and tested good pianistic habits.
The field of neuroscience is really fascinating and it has helped us a lot in understanding both the similarities AND the differences between individuals. If you read more into it, you will see that while of course not all people are not completely different to each other, there are also many significant differences that explain why statistically common principles do not always apply.
Getting back to being bored when memorizing previously read pieces. Have you tried memorizing from the get go on any work, outin ? In other words, a little practice to feel your way along but then go right to memorizing each section as you learn it.
Now of course as you said at the end of your last post, your primary goal is probably not to play the best you can, you probably get more kicks out of trying out different methods. In that case, none of what I said applies to you.
You seem to have a habit of reading more into what I write than what was intended, and I do have a habit of expressing myself too inadequately My primary goal is to play perfectly! But it is not enough to motivate me to work as much as I do on everyday level, considering everything else going on my life. If I did not enjoy the process of solving problems as well, I would already have given up.
Good for you if it works. Have you tried performing these pieces in public? Are you able to play them without memory lapses on stage? That would be the true test of your memorization strategies. My learning habits are still evolving and I'm still engaging in a lot of suboptimal learning techniques (such as the ones I critiques in my posts). I am able to play my pieces very well when I'm alone in my house as well. However, I wouldn't claim that I'm confident that I'll play without memory lapses on stage in front of an audience. That is because I know that I have a lot more work to do on my theory and musical understanding and practice habits before I can get to that level of confidence. So try performing these pieces on stage (i.e., in front of other people) a couple of times and if you are able to play through consistently without memory lapses, then your memorization techniques obviously work for you.
This is what you said: I enjoy solving problems, so I am probably more motivated by the process than the desire to some day play well. For me, the primary goal is also the primary source of motivation. I don't see how the alternative works where your primary goal and primary motivation are not aligned. Yet another example of individual differences I guess.
Playing the piano will be a never ending learning experience, so if one does not enjoy the learning process and the difficulties in it, what would be the point of it?
P.S: I was the front man of a rock band some years ago and I never had trouble singing in front of big audiences. Playing the piano is an entirely different story however. So don't assume that because you can sing and speak in front of an audience, it will be the same when it comes to playing the piano. If you believe in individual differences, you must also believe in domain differences.
You really do not have to worry about me assuming such things. I'm quite rational.Forgot BTW, that of course I have performed on stage with the piano too, as a child. Didn't enjoy it because I was never prepared enough. I would not be that silly now...
Since I do not usually suffer from stage fright (I have no problem singing or speaking to an audience) I think if I could play the piece consistently at home or on lessons and know that I can, I could also do it on stage.
Many new players confuse this. Muscle memory is how you play the piano! Sure you can, what you call "Actually learn" a piece, but without muscle memory, you would have to think about each individual note before you hit it! This can be accomplished easily when you're playing easy songs, but when you are playing fast, and I mean fast, songs, it would be impossible!What you are doing when you're learning/practicing a song is training the muscle memory to hit the right notes.
Topic: muscle memory vs REAL learning a piece 