Is this room too small for a Steinway Model A?

[lmpianist]

I'm in the very early stages of shopping for an acoustic piano.  I own my own house and so I have total freedom in deciding what kind of instrument to get and where to place it.  This will be my first time shopping for an acoustic piano.  I'm leaning towards a Steinway Model A as my first choice, or an equivalently sized Baldwin as my second choice.  Figuring out a reputable place to go shopping for such an instrument in person is another matter, but at the moment I'm focused on figuring out where to put it once I get it.

Unfortunately my house is laid out a bit awkwardly, so there aren't many places that make sense to place a grand of that size without massively interfering with the floorplan.  I don't expect to ever be performing for groups at my home (maybe at most one or two people), so placing it in the living room is not a necessity.  One option I'm considering is a room that measures about 11' x 12'.  Does this seem too small for a Model A?  Physically there would be enough space (the piano measures 4'9" x 6'2"), but I don't want the sound to be overwhelming for the room.

My other choices would put the instrument in front of a baseboard heat run (which I don't think would be good for it over time), or in the basement, which despite being at walkout/ground level in the back and currently the only place in the house that's humidity controlled, doesn't seem like a real good place for it.

[noambenhamou]

No, its not too small. Many practice rooms at universities are 10x10 and have Grande  in them.

As long as it is carpeted and you are willing to pay attention to the room acoustics, maybe wall tapestry, acoustic panels you may find really good sound in there.

Did you say 11 feet? Sounds like a model D is in order with 2 feet to spare for the bench. I would!

[hfmadopter]

I've heard some great sounding Steinway M and L grands that would give you just that little extra room around the piano in that room. As will the older O. But an A will fit obviously, I think as another poster said, it will depend on room treatment mostly.

 I own a Henry F Miller, said by many techs to be the poor mans Steinway in it's vintage ( not so sure about the new ones), in the size of an O that resides in a room slightly larger than yours. The room is not carpeted and at one point it had some tapestry on the walls. It wasn't bad with the top fully up then. Without the tapestry and with the top fully up the piano can really clock your ears. I play it mostly with the top down or up on the first stick, which opens it maybe 14inches or so. It sounds great there. I have no reason to own a larger piano than this one, it has a full rich bass etc. etc.

[outin]

I too have been wondering about size lately... What do you think would be an acceptable size of a grand in a room sized 5,6m x 3,6m (~18'x12' if I did the conversion right). The height is only 2,5m (~8'). Acoustics will need some work anyway, but I don't want to overwhelm the space (or neighbours).

I cannot decide between a baby grand or something around the size of 180 cm. There would be much more to choose from in the larger size.

I now have an upright in a smaller room 13' x 11' (4m x 3,4m) and it is already very loud...I am not used to uprights being so loud... The smaller room would be a better place for the grand as well because it does not share walls with my neighbours and I've already added acoustic elements, but the room really seems too small.

I never thought finding a suitable grand would take me so long, and it's not even about the money... I hate the fact that I cannot just get them delivered to my home, test them and send them back until I am completely satisfied

I seriously considered the option of getting a new place for the piano first, but decided that moving is really not something I am prepared to do, no matter how much I would like to have all kinds of pianos 

[hfmadopter]

Outin, the room you want to put the grand in is almost exactly the size of my room. I'll let you do the math but something 5'7" to 6' should work fine. With a grand you have options of how high you lift the top or to play it closed up. Tone makes a difference too and of course room treatment as already mentioned. Many pianos in this size range sound nice, have great bass resonance etc. That would be a nice fit for your room IMO.

If you think you want to go smaller, my personal choice would be to stay above 5'3". Around that size or smaller you really need to start studying the pianos more for bass tone and really upper treble as well. Just my thought and best of luck on your search, the right piano is out there keep up the faith!!

[outin]

Outin, the room you want to put the grand in is almost exactly the size of my room. I'll let you do the math but something 5'7" to 6' should work fine. With a grand you have options of how high you lift the top or to play it closed up. Tone makes a difference too and of course room treatment as already mentioned. Many on this size range sound nice, have great bass resonance etc. That would be a nice fit for your room IMO.

If you think you want to go smaller my personal choice would be to stay above 5'3". Around that size or smaller you really need to start studying the pianos more for bass tone and really upper treble as well. Just my thought and best of luck on your search, the right piano is out there keep up he faith!!

Thanks!

My tech has promised to work on the tone as well so that it will please me...So I think I will forget about trying to go small and instead try to find something nice...
 

[hfmadopter]

Thanks!

My tech has promised to work on the tone as well so that it will please me...So I think I will forget about trying to go small and instead try to find something nice...
 

Sounds good to me, get something you love!

[hfmadopter]

Thanks!

My tech has promised to work on the tone as well so that it will please me...So I think I will forget about trying to go small and instead try to find something nice...
 

I did the conversion on a 180Cm piano and that is 5'10", so just about any brand out there made a piano at or right around that size At some point in it's history. Anyone you might consider anyway. The field is pretty wide open, there must be something available for you then !

How is this tone on this 5'4" Mason and Hamlin ( not the playing but the tone):

[quantum]

Another thing to keep in mind is that larger grands often have finer control over the dynamic range.  It means that it will be easier to play softly and still maintain fine granular control over expression. 

I did about 10 years worth of research before obtaining my grand piano, and at a price that was within budget.  For me, it was a very enlightening experience playing many many different pianos and learning to become observant of the characteristics of each instrument.  Such knowledge has helped me to quickly adapt to unfamiliar pianos in performance situations. 

Don't worry that you have not found the piano that is right for you.  A piano search can be a lot of fun. 

[outin]

I did the conversion on a 180Cm piano and that is 5'10", so just about any brand out there made a piano at or right around that size At some point in it's history. Anyone you might consider anyway. The field is pretty wide open, there must be something available for you then !

How is this tone on this 5'4" Mason and Hamlin ( not the playing but the tone):

Maybe a bit bright for my taste...

It would be easier if I could just try out from a large selection of new pianos. But I live in a black hole when it comes to grand pianos. If I want a new one the few dealers around here only want to sell you Yamaha or Kawai...or Schimmel, everything else is terribly overpriced and there aren't really any pianos to try out, they would need to order...

The market for used grands is not much better...There aren't that many, probably partly due to the fact that apartments have traditionally been small so people just bought uprights.

[hfmadopter]

Maybe a bit bright for my taste...

It would be easier if I could just try out from a large selection of new pianos. But I live in a black hole when it comes to grand pianos. If I want a new one the few dealers around here only want to sell you Yamaha or Kawai...or Schimmel, everything else is terribly overpriced and there aren't really any pianos to try out, they would need to order...

The market for used grands is not much better...There aren't that many, probably partly due to the fact that apartments have traditionally been small so people just bought uprights.

Have you tried a Kawai RX2 ? It has the Millennium III action in it, you might like it, worth a try out at least if they have one at the dealer. I don't know much about Schimmel but thought the brand was pretty decent. Yamaha is Yamaha, some love them some don't. I believe I'd take a Kawai first, certainly a Mason and Hamlin. A well tuned and voiced Steinway L or O rather has it's own tone, some prefer the older O.

Hmm, perhaps our sound systems are calibrated differently ( I do have a separate bass speaker on mine), though we all have different taste. The M+H to me sounded well toned for a shorter piano, just sayin.

[outin]

Have you tried a Kawai RX2 ? It has the Millennium III action in it, you might like it, worth a try out at least if they have one at the dealer. I don't know much about Schimmel but thought the brand was pretty decent. Yamaha is Yamaha, some love them some don't. I believe I'd take a Kawai first, certainly a Mason and Hamlin. A well tuned and voiced Steinway L or O rather has it's own tone, some prefer the older O.

Hmm, perhaps our sound systems are calibrated differently ( I do have a separate bass speaker on mine), though we all have different taste. The M+H to me sounded well toned for a shorter piano, just sayin.

Yes, I don't really trust the computer sound even if I do have an extra soundcard and speakers.

But M+H isn't really a brand available around here.

I did send an e-mail to Stockholm, maybe it would be worth to at least try out a Steinway too... If I end up buying a new one instead of used, I think I would invest as much as I can to get something I really like. And I guess I still think about the new Estonia grand, but the idea of importing at my own risk bothers me a little bit...

I was hoping I would find something used in the lower price range and keep it a few years and then if feeling necessary I could still update...but it isn't as easy to find something as I thought. The used pianos I've been offered are either really old, which my tech doesn't recommend or cheaper grands from eastern Europe or Asia.

I have only tried out one used Kawai grand, don't remember the model. We didn't connect much.

[hfmadopter]

My choice in a new Steinway would be an L model but an M is sweet.

[indianajo]

I suggest one try out a grand in a tiny room before buying one.  My ears buzz when music is too loud (military damage), I find music much more enjoyable at a nice 70-100 db.
Grands project the music out the right, IMHO, a console projects it back to the wall to bounce off, or like my Steinway 40, through the holes in front out at the player.
Furthermore that mantra that consoles are not controllable at low volumes is a story about the thousands of **** consoles sold to stupid buyers as status symbols or furniture.  My 1941 Steinway 40 and my 1982 Sohmer 39 are both very controllable over their whole volume range.  The keys will sound as slow as I want to go.
The one big advantage of a grand over a console, is the middle pedal holding up only the dampers lifted when the pedal was put down.
I bought my current house for the music, something that people in Europe perhaps can't do. While thousands buy houses with odd shaped living rooms with cathedral ceilings, and only 6' from the neighbors house, I bought a house built in 1937. My house looks like thousands of burnt out wood homes in Detroit.  The wall between the living room and dining room has been removed, making a rectangular 30' long x 14' wide by 11' high space.  With the piano and stereo speakers at one end, it is a hard walled space shaped much like the Philharmoniker Hall in Wein.  Further more when playing the stereo, the music will continue unobstructed through the door into the kitchen 35' away, sounding great with the proper resonance.  I do have carpet on the floor, books on the walls, and much stuffed furniture.  In addition I am 25' wall to wall from the nearest neighbor, and 50' from music room to their bedroom, so I can play as loud as I want anytime I want.  I've planted a bushy cedar tree between my bathroom and the neighbors wall for better isolation.  I've never had a complaint from a neighbor.  Look around for living space, music is one of life's greatest pleasures and a great concert room in your house is a luxury even those of modest means can afford, in my medium sized city.  Affordable housing in pleasant neighborhood is part of why I moved here. New housing tracts in surburbia are built to sell, not live in.  No sidewalks, tiny lots with enormous houses crammed together wall to wall, cull-de-sacs with a couple of miles walk in dangerous ditches to the grocerty store, USA surburban developments are an exercise in stupidity. I live two blocks from a grocery store, two dollar stores, a bank, and a bus stop.  I have high speed internet, natural gas supply, city water and sewers. The snow plow does my street.  It is a great situation.   

[indianajo]

weird double post deleted, can't erase it all. 

[outin]

My choice in a new Steinway would be an L model but an M is sweet.

They don't even seem to have L-models in Europe?
Anyway, didn't have any luck...they don't have any of the smaller models in Stockholm either. They have Bostons, but I could as well look for a Kawai or Yamaha then...

[hfmadopter]

They don't even seem to have L-models in Europe?
Anyway, didn't have any luck...they don't have any of the smaller models in Stockholm either. They have Bostons, but I could as well look for a Kawai or Yamaha then...

Wow, you're really not lucking out ! Personally I probably would rather a Kawai Rx to a Boston. I'd have to compare and play both but feel the Kawai is just a more up front deal.

Edit:  If you get a chance to play on a Shigeru Kawai you may find that worth your while.

[outin]

Wow, you really not lucking out! Personally I probably would rather a Kawai Rx to a Boston. I'd have to compare a d play both but feel the Kawai is just a more up front deal.

Edit:  I you get a chance to play on a Shigeru Kawai you may find that worth your while.

I guess I could settle for something a bit less expensive anyway

[hfmadopter]

I guess I could settle for something a bit less expensive anyway

Shigeru's are rather special with a limited amount built each year. It may not cost all that much less!

[quantum]

Edit:  I you get a chance to play on a Shigeru Kawai you may find that worth your while.

IMO Shigerus are amazing instruments.  I'd prefer one over a Kawai in most cases.  The ones I've played (with Millennium III) have been some of the most responsive actions of any piano I've played - that includes Steinways.

[hfmadopter]

IMO Shigerus are amazing instruments.  I'd prefer one over a Kawai in most cases.  The ones I've played (with Millennium III) have been some of the most responsive actions of any piano I've played - that includes Steinways.

One of the least responsive pianos I ever played was a Steinway ! But it's not fair to say this as it needed bushing work and regulation. By the same token, for a nice tone that I liked anyway, was also on a Steinway.

Shigeru's well tuned and regulated have a crystalline clear tone to them in the mid and upper register and a strong bass, beautiful to my ear. Almost magical. But that's to me, perhaps not to outin or in her space for that matter. I have no neighbors close enough to my house to bother. We have a tenant but good separation to his apartment and I have the digital for the 3 am practice time on the piano anyway.

[outin]

Shigeru's are rather special with a limited amount built each year. It may not cost all that much less!

That's what I meant...something less expensive than a Steinway or Shigeru should do

[hfmadopter]

That's what I meant...something less expensive than a Steinway or Shigeru should do

Dahh, of course ( touches his temple and outstretches his hand) !

[outin]

Dahh, of course ( touches his temple and outstretches his hand) !

But maybe all is not lost...just got an e-mail from the tech. There might be something available...

[hfmadopter]

But maybe all is not lost...just got an e-mail from the tech. There might be something available...

Wonderful, keep us filled in!!

[lmpianist]

Thank you all for the feedback!

[hfmadopter]

Thank you all for the feedback!

Let us know what you decide and how you make out !