Is it possible to still become professional at age 20??

[aussiepianist93]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum. I live in sunny Queensland, Australia and have been playing the piano since I was 8 years old. I took piano lessons for about 2 years, but I hated my teacher so much that from then on until now I have taught myself. I play at approximately grade 6 standard, but I have NEVER taken a piano exam in my life.

I've been an accompanist since I was 15, and I have played for choirs as large as 300 people on odd occasions. I've only been playing 'hardcore' classical repertoire since about age 14. I do not consider myself to be professional.

Recently I was talking to a retired concert pianist in Brisbane who has set me up with a great teacher in my city who I am hopefully starting with in a couple of months. However, she said I would need to practice at least 5 hours per day if I am serious. I currently only practice for 1-2 hours per day.

I am currently learning Liebestraume No. 3 by Liszt, Wedding Day at Troldhaugen by Grieg, the Prelude in C# minor by Rachmaninov, as well as Bach's no 1 & 8 inventions.

I am just wondering, what are the chances of becoming a 'professional' at my age? So many piano students I know are so much better than me, and already have music degrees at age 20. I DO NOT want to be a full-time concert pianist. This is not realistic, I realize. However I do have a passion for teaching and performing.

Many thanks..

[brogers70]

That's the sort of question which has a very specific individual answer. You don't care whether a generic person with some of your characteristics could become a professional; you care about whether you, specifically, can. Nobody reading your question can answer that. A teacher who had worked with you for a while and knew both your character and your musicianship might have a helpful answer. But nobody here will know enough to answer usefully.

And the answers you are likely to get will fall into the categories of 1) of course, you can do anything you want if you try hard enough 2) no, it's too late and unrealistic 3) how can we tell, we've never heard you play.

So work with your new teacher for a few months, practice 5 hours a day, and see what you and your teacher think.

[bronnestam]

I am absolutely sure you can become a professional pianist. What is needed, though, is a professional approach - consider it a full-time job, and that includes practicing as well. So you won't get there by practicing 1-2 hours a day ... I also believe you should count on studying some associated topics as well, depending on what branch you choose. (Teaching, composition, arrangement etcetera)

There are many ways to work as a pianist. You may make a living as a teacher, a studio musician, a demonstrator, restaurant pianist, church musician ... I think you must be prepared to work in many different fields with all kinds of music.
What will matter in long terms is your devotion and will to work hard and seriously, and to use any help you can find to develop and learn.  

[faulty_damper]

Here's a different perspective:
Make music (not just play piano) + large repertoire + excellent stage presence = yes.
Neither age nor looks will matter, though these things matter an awful lot.

However, the fact that you even asked suggests you have none of these things.  So no matter how much you practice, you'll never get there.  It's a pipe dream to play for large paying audiences.  Small, free concerts may be your thing, though.

[aussiepianist93]

Thanks for your replies so far...

Sorry I forgot to add in my original post - I have also been a church organist since the age of 13. I love playing the pipe organ - it is such a challenging instrument to conquer.

I do not 'dream' of playing for huge audiences of 1000s in large concert halls. This is unrealistic for me. I just want to be able to teach students and maybe give a few concerts here and there. A fair number of people have told me that I'm talented and I should take it further(including that pianist from Brisbane I mentioned).

I've got a video of me playing what I've learnt of Liebestraume No 3. so far if anyone is interested.

[faulty_damper]

Here's a clue: if a "teacher" or some "pianist" says that you need to practice x number of hours, turn and walk away.  Piano technique is not something that is acquired from x number of hours.  if this were true, we'd have huge numbers of incredibly talented pianists all vying for ticket sales.  But this isn't what happens.

[aussiepianist93]

Faulty-damper... do you play professionally/in piano concerts???  Why should I run away from a teacher that says I need to practice for x amount of hours...?? this sounds like complete nonsense.....

[bronnestam]

Here's a clue: if a "teacher" or some "pianist" says that you need to practice x number of hours, turn and walk away.  Piano technique is not something that is acquired from x number of hours.  if this were true, we'd have huge numbers of incredibly talented pianists all vying for ticket sales.  But this isn't what happens.

I don't quite understand what you mean. Every pianist who is working professionally or even semi-professionally (in one way or the other) has made his/her duty hours at the piano. We don't talk about the oh so mocked "mindless practicing" here, where you let your fingers move while you think of something else and check off the hours I've spent so far ...
But to become a professional, you must work professionally, as I wrote before. Working professionally normally means that you spend a normal working day dealing with your job. To a pianist it probably means practicing and studying music - take lessons, read theory, analyze, memorize, listen ...

This is, as we know, no guarantee that you will succeed anyway. But I can almost certainly guarantee that if you just practice piano playing at a hobby level, you will remain at hobby level. 

 

[aussiepianist93]

Thanks for your reply bronnestam!!

So I guess if I want to be a professional I have to start working like one!

I just read an interesting article about James Rhodes, the UK pianist. He quit the piano at 18, only to take it up again at age 28. He practiced for I think 6 hours per day and now he is a famous pianist, with his own TV show. I guess that proves that you 'can' do anything if you put the effort in....

Also just found out that Richter was 20 before he started his first formal piano lessons!

[faulty_damper]

Faulty-damper... do you play professionally/in piano concerts???  Why should I run away from a teacher that says I need to practice for x amount of hours...?? this sounds like complete nonsense.....

Piano technique is not something that is acquired from x number of hours.  if this were true, we'd have huge numbers of incredibly talented pianists all vying for ticket sales.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

 Why should I run away from a teacher that says I need to practice for x amount of hours...?? this sounds like complete nonsense.....

It's not how much you practice, but how well you practice.  You could practice 8 hours a day and still get nothing done.  

Quality over quantity my friend. 

[senanserat]

It's not how much you practice, but how well you practice.  You could practice 8 hours a day and still get nothing done. 

Quality over quantity my friend. 

*** yes, sometimes I am feeling down and after some hours I feel like I achieved little, other times I can see and feel improvement after 20 minutes.

[aussiepianist93]

Yes faulty damper but you still haven't answered my question..... Do you play professionally?

[faulty_damper]

Yes faulty damper but you still haven't answered my question..... Do you play professionally?

No.  But what does that have to do with the verity of my earlier statement?

[bronnestam]

It's not how much you practice, but how well you practice.  You could practice 8 hours a day and still get nothing done.  

Quality over quantity my friend. 

I assumed that the pianist who gave this advice meant x hours of GOOD practice, not just x hours at the piano. Was I the only one to make that assumption, then? Why?

[hfmadopter]

I assumed that the pianist who gave this advice meant x hours of GOOD practice, not just x hours at the piano. Was I the only one to make that assumption, then? Why?

Nope, not the only one !

[aussiepianist93]

Yes, the pianist told me I should practice at least 5 hours per day - but she said I should be picking out small segments and then bringing those small segments up to speed. She said at the moment I should be focusing on developing my ability to play the pieces 'in my head' and memorizing rather than playing just from the music. She said it will take time as I've never really done it before. Apparently mental play does wonders for technique and agility

[faulty_damper]

The fact that she mentioned x number of hours just shows how ignorant she is.  My former teacher, who was a concert pianist, said that his "best students practice six hours a day."  In actuality, his worst (sounding) student practiced 4 hours a day, 6 on weekends.  No amount of hours could make up for his dreadful, non-musical sound.

Also, the fact that she so freely gave advice without ever seeing or hearing you practice suggests she has no idea what she's talking about.  And yet just because she's a performer you give her authority on the subject?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Yes, the pianist told me I should practice at least 5 hours per day - but she said I should be picking out small segments and then bringing those small segments up to speed. She said at the moment I should be focusing on developing my ability to play the pieces 'in my head' and memorizing rather than playing just from the music. She said it will take time as I've never really done it before. Apparently mental play does wonders for technique and agility

You're barely familiar with the pianist and she's telling you to practice five hours a day.  That's just not right.  It depends on the person.  Some people may actually be able to pull off five hours a day, but most can't.  It depends on the person.

And when I say pull off five hours, I mean actually get work done for five hours.  You could practice for fife hours but hit your limit for the day at two or three so any work after that would be wasted.

The road to becoming a professional doesn't boil down to who practices the most.

[aussiepianist93]

 I have known this pianist since I was 14, and yes, she has heard me play more than a few times. 

[faulty_damper]

My former famous concert pianist teacher heard me play every week and he'd still tell me to practice "six hours a day" even after I told him my specific problems I was having with technique. Like somehow, a couple of extra hours of practice was going to cure my technical deficiencies. 

[pianosfun]

You could definitely become a professional. But the rate at which you'll get there, and also how good you'll get depends on your motivations. If you care about piano for skills' sake, you'll have a terrible time, and you'll probably get injuries. If you care about it for music's sake, and don't care in any degree about anything else, but simply feeling the keys under your hand, then you should do pretty good.

Hahaha, I'm sorry, but people get it backwards a lot. 5 hours a day? That would be great, but more often than not people get the wrong idea that the instrument is meant to be quickly learned. It is not meant to be quickly learned. It takes time, patience, and love. Technique is not accomplished with scales, but with heart.

[aussiepianist93]

Thank you for your helpful reply. The only reason I want to do this is because of my love for music. Music is one of life's greatest pleasures.  I don't care what people say I can't do, but I'm going to try anyway. I guess it's not like I'm a beginner whose only starting. I've had quite a lot of experience accompanying. I'm no virtuoso but I try to be a good 'musician' and according to your comments that is all that matters. I can remember playing Handel's largo once (an VERY easy piece in the eyes of 'professionals' I guess...) and I had a lady say it brought her to tears. Likewise when I play Schumann's Traumerei, I can't help but feel absolutely moved. The power of music....

[pianosfun]

Since you seem to enjoy music, I would give you the advice to focus very closely on your technique at all times and to focus on [nurturing] it. For it is your technique that gives you entrance in the world of music. What I mean by the world of music is the imaginary world of creativity that has endless possibilities!

As far as technique goes, I mean this: How do you really think that you should play that (one) key? If you stumbled upon a piano and had nothing to worry about but that instrument and your perception of it, then how would you play each single note? Not based on your teacher's opinion, nor on some concert pianist's opinion, nor on the technitian's opinition, but based on your own enjoyment of the instrument's presence? That determines everything.

Haha, my bad, but do listen to your master piano teacher. Technique is first learned on the order of one note. Then on multiple notes put together. But in the end it all points back to giving each finger due respect as it plays it's own one note. If you can play one key by itself, then you can play one key from another key. And you can also play those three keys together to make rythms. But remember! There's no right or wrong, just creativity. And this creativity pulls everything together to yield perfect, relaxed technique.

So I guess create own technique but still every once and a while look back at the master's (Yundi Li, Daniil Trifinov, Grosvenor, your teacher or local musician, ect...) to get new ideas...