Bach Invention No 4 Cory Hall recording ?

[hfmadopter]

My version does not include the couple of trills and turns Cory Hall uses in this video:

Now I know that some accents are open to interpretation in Baroque but my score doesn't indicate any at all where he plays them, so be that, I can accept that. Mr Hall has been granted scholar status regarding Bach, so I assume he hasn't totally made this up. Would that be correct then ? Maybe I should add these as well ( not the long trills, mine has those written) ?

Incidentally, this little Bach study is taking more work than I anticipated !! More than the Mozart I'm studying it for actually ( which is typical of Bach for me). My thought process was to work on the No 4 invention to help prepare the Mozart K397, it seems more the other way around to me at this point. Well, maybe they are helping one another.

[perfect_pitch]

No offense... but I give no credit or plausibility to Cory Hall as a person. I pointed out a mistake in his interpretation of one of the etudes he played, where he misinterpreted the time signature (to which several people agreed with).

He ended up arguing like a cocky pregnant dog (he did) and couldn't take the slightest criticism, and then for very shortly after that, stopped allowing people to comment on his videos (I guess others had some critical notes that he didn't like).

Although I don't actually know if he is a fraud in the sense of his claims that he is a Scholar student... I'm damn well sure he's a bit of a pompous prick.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Turns and other ornamentation can be implicit in Baroque keyboard music without being present in the score (often they might be added into a repeat of a plain, unornamented section). Re BachScholar, I'd agree with p_p. I've looked through some of his videos and find him a relatively competent but uninspiring pianist with mediocre tone and a thoroughly dogmatic attitude. I wouldn't consider him an authority at all, nor would I visit one of his videos if I wanted to hear how a piece 'should sound'.

[awesom_o]

Cory Hall's playing is totally flaccid.

Knowing what kind of a man Bach was, I do not think he would support such flaccid playing, whether or not it came with a 'scholar degree'

Surely you could play it much better!

Bach was an extremely virile man who was not above beating people up who showed disrespect toward his music.

I have no doubt he would administer a fairly severe beating to Mr Hall for the boring way he played that invention.

[hfmadopter]

I happened on his rendition before work this morning. I was unaware of Mr Hall's reputation here and if I had been aware of it would have searched out another example before posting. I do thank both for your responses and appreciate the information which goes to my question directly. I will look for a different recording later today.

[hfmadopter]

Cory Hall's playing is totally flaccid.

Knowing what kind of a man Bach was, I do not think he would support such flaccid playing, whether or not it came with a 'scholar degree'

Surely you could play it much better!

Bach was an extremely virile man who was not above beating people up who showed disrespect toward his music.

I have no doubt he would administer a fairly severe beating to Mr Hall for the boring way he played that invention.

Awesome-O, I must admit that I've heard some of his recordings in the past and wondered what was so great about him given this status. Mainly though, I was interested in ornamentation and actually specifically went looking for videos regarding that with this piece and landed on his. This was in the early AM before work, so I posted off here rather in haste. None the less, I was taken back a bit by the abrupt response and obvious distaste of the man and his work ! I was really unaware, as I stated above, about his status here at PS.

Well, I'll figure out some ornamentation that I like.

[awesom_o]

I wasn't aware Mr Hall had a reputation here!

Bach was a real virtuoso who was extremely passionate about music.

It is unlikely he would have tolerated such an insipid, vapid interpretation.

I think it's much more likely he would have wanted the music to be filled to the brim with charm and style, like it was in this performance!

[cabbynum]

I wasn't aware Mr Hall had a reputation here!

Bach was a real virtuoso who was extremely passionate about music.

It is unlikely he would have tolerated such an insipid, vapid interpretation.

I think it's much more likely he would have wanted the music to be filled to the brim with charm and style, like it was in this performance!

If I believed in any sort of reincarnation I'd argue that Glenn Gould got atleast some of Bach jammed into him.

[j_menz]

If I believed in any sort of reincarnation I'd argue that Glenn Gould got atleast some of Bach jammed into him.

That would explain some of the facial expressions.

[visitor]

Haha Bach scholar, that dude is the chubby personal fitness trainer giving out weight loss advice of the piano world

[hfmadopter]

I wasn't aware Mr Hall had a reputation here!

Bach was a real virtuoso who was extremely passionate about music.

It is unlikely he would have tolerated such an insipid, vapid interpretation.

I think it's much more likely he would have wanted the music to be filled to the brim with charm and style, like it was in this performance!

Apparently a negative reputation, which I did not know about..

Gould is honored here by many and obviously put on a splendid display with the little invention. But I do wonder if Bach really played this Invention that fast or even could have on the instruments of his day.

[hfmadopter]

Haha Bach scholar, that dude is the chubby personal fitness trainer giving out weight loss advice of the piano world

Ya know what ? I don't know anything about the guy ( obviously, as I stepped into a hornets nest with my post) but I'm also not here to shred anyone to pieces either.

 If there are good examples of performances and or just ornamentation related to this piece that you know of then please pass them on and I will consider what I will do with that information.

[indianajo]

I've been dis-respecting Mr. Gould's performance since I bought the LP in 1972.  All disconnected, no audible trills. That LP was a total waste of three hours pay.  
Now I can dis-respect Cory Hall's performance.  All legato, no volume changes. The steady volume may be original since JSB owned a pedal Harpsichord, but Mr. Busoni put in articulation in his edition to add some interest.  I thought articulation changes was somethng harpsichord players typically did, since they didn't have volume to play with.
At least you can hear the trills, but they are machine like.   The extra little mordent at the end I think is fine, baroque people did that all the time to add spice to stuff, especially harpsichord recitals where the notes died away so fast.  
I wish I had my mixer and microphone setup going, this is a piece I play every day right after the Scott Joplin three.  My articulation derives from Mr. Busoni, but the volume changes and accents I add make my version in the very different category. Mr. JSB would have hated it or loved it, I don't know which.  My version is very piano oriented, since it explores a palette of colors Mr. B had to write for strings and winds to use,  but it owes as much to Joplin and Waller as it does to Mr. Busoni.  
Enjoy this piece Mr. Hfmadopter.  Don't be afraid to be yourself.  

[visitor]

Ya know what ? I don't know anything about the guy ( obviously, as I stepped into a hornets nest with my post) but I'm also not here to shred anyone to pieces either.

 If there are good examples of performances and or just ornamentation related to this piece that you know of then please pass them on and I will consider what I will do with that information.

i actually do not think he is awful as a pianist he has some nice moments here and there it's more his attitude and inflated sense of relevance I tend to jab at ( hence why I more poked fun at him in a non piano specific way ie attitude ala "he's one to talk...".  

There are quite a number of fineplayers to look for guidance from.  Does Rosalyn Turek ring any bells? I would look to her recordings and writings on the matter.  

I wonder if Wanda Landowska ever recorded Bach pieces I  am almost certain she did, maybe look for examples there and also maybe If recordings exist  of old Heinrich Neihaus playing Bach, I tend to really like the old guard's approach to these and similar matters.

If I can rustle up a specific recording I shall try to post later .

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Whilst I had already seen a fair few of his videos, I wasn't in a position to listen to the actual recording in question when I posted this morning - having now listened to it, dear me, that's the sort of dull as ditchwater playing that gives Bach a bad name. I certainly hear nothing that would cause me to revise my initial impression.

i actually do not think he is awful as a pianist he has some nice moments here and there it's more his attitude and inflated sense if relevance I tend to jab at

Yes, the attitude and "authority" is certainly open to gentle mockery. There are far better pianists than him on this forum.

Just listening to his Pathetique sonata slow movement. If I thought that was cantabile, I'd give up.

[outin]

Incidentally, this little Bach study is taking more work than I anticipated !!

I just picked up this one too
As usual with Bach the fingering needs a lot of work for me because nothing seems to work really well, but I'll try to keep working on it as a side project. A good way to maintain my dislike for Bach

My urtext edition has very few ornaments. But it is also suggests that the ornamentation found in the original sources of the inventions were intended as examples and the player was supposed to understand how to ornament based on the examples and the conventions of the time. This makes sense to me, since I have understood that in Baroque era the player was supposed to be able to improvise, especially in repeats...So why worry about different interpretations, just make your own.

[hfmadopter]

I just picked up this one too
As usual with Bach the fingering needs a lot of work for me because nothing seems to work really well, but I'll try to keep working on it as a side project. A good way to maintain my dislike for Bach

My urtext edition has very few ornaments. But it is also suggests that the ornamentation found in the original sources of the inventions were intended as examples and the player was supposed to understand how to ornament based on the examples and the conventions of the time. This makes sense to me, since I have understood that in Baroque era the player was supposed to be able to improvise, especially in repeats...So why worry about different interpretations, just make your own.

I started working on some added accenting last night. I'm getting much good from the piece, as I always do from Bach ( I do not recall working on this invention in the past but the past is a long time ago too !). I mentioned yesterday that I think between this and the Mozart I'm working on they are gaining ground for me on each other actually, where I thought I'd do the Bach as background support for the Mozart. I'll be the first to admit that Bach fools me every time, looks simple enough, never is no matter how simply written it appears to be.

If Horowitz ever recorded this piece, I'm reasonably sure he would have executed the piece in a way that I could fully relate to.

[hfmadopter]

 
Enjoy this piece Mr. Hfmadopter.  Don't be afraid to be yourself.  

Oh boy, you don't know me well, you may not really want to hear that rendition indianajoe !

Seriously, I'm just after some various performances and I'll take it from there.

Thanks for your reply.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

My urtext edition has very few ornaments. But it is also suggests that the ornamentation found in the original sources of the inventions were intended as examples and the player was supposed to understand how to ornament based on the examples and the conventions of the time. This makes sense to me, since I have understood that in Baroque era the player was supposed to be able to improvise, especially in repeats.

My understanding (based on what my teacher told me) is that Bach (J.S.) very rarely wrote out ornaments in full and that ultimately his son C.P.E. wrote a treatise detailing the conventions for each ornament. Agreed with the final statement, and I'd emphasise the "especially in repeats".

[hfmadopter]

I scratched around on the piece and have, since posting last, installed about 4 mordents. Two of which are in the last line. That's it, simple changes.