help for nervous pianists

[pianoplayer51]

I know someone who took Beta Blockers to calm nerves before a performance.   This person also teaches and recommended this to the parents of her non adult students as a good method of calming nerves before a performance or exam.    I would not take a drug for nerves as this is dangerous and you can get hooked.

There are better more natural ways of calming nerves.    If I  was a parent being told by my childs teacher that Beta Blockers would help, I would think twice about continuing with the teacher.   

Maybe that is just me, so what do others think and how do you calm nerves.   

[pianosfun]

Hahahahaha, nerves go away when the instrument becomes your own! As Benjamin Grosvenor said that he feels some nerves when walking on the stage but then after being in front of the -piano- finds that they go away. It takes time and patience to develope this ability, however. Calmness suggests association, closeness, and intimacy with the instrument for music's sake... Which unfortunately in our fast world is often not taught due to it being fast paced and pragmatic!

As far as natural ways to calm nerves, I would reccomend the art of visualisation. You could visualise that no one is around but you and the piano. Or you could try out right ignoring of the presence of other people in the room (Meaning, "I'll play like I'm gonna play either way.."). Or you could treat the serious looking judge as a friend that you want to share something that is endearing to you with!

And IF the person fails - this is an important learning experience - If they fail, how they react to the "failure" (there is no failure) will determine how they respond to future events like that.

[gregh]

I know that some performers use beta blockers, and it helps them. It's not the way I would want to go. But it's easy and useless for a non-addict to tell an addict "Just stop using the stuff", or to tell a clinically depressed person to "Cheer up!" People are different, and if someone has special problems coping, I wouldn't want to be the one to tell him what his doctor can and can't give him.

With that disclaimer aside, the good news is that it gets better with practice. The bad news is that it takes practice.

I was a teaching assistant for some time, and the first day I had ALL of the symptoms of the fear of public speaking--dry mouth, sweaty palms, stammering, forgetting things, my knees literally knocked together! Not unlike my few earlier experiences in other venues. Before I was done I was comfortable in front of a crowd, I could relax, tell jokes, it just didn't bother me much. But I was a TA, which means I got a LOT of practice. I wasn't just doing a performance a few times per year, but rather a few times per week.

Of course, what Mr. Fun said is true. You have to master the material, because if you know you can't play it well, then you'll be nervous for a good reason! If that and the other stuff he mentioned above doesn't work out, well, I don't know if confidence in public speaking transfers to musical performance, but maybe it's something to try.

[hardy_practice]

The first thing to do is to put things in perspective: Were you to step absent mindedly out in front of a car your body would pull you back way before you become conscious of the danger.  There's a fail safe mechanism that shuts consciousness down and takes control should you attempt something stupid and dangerous.   As far as this mechanism is concerned revealing yourself to hundreds or even a small number of people puts you at risk of being eaten; hence it's a stupid and dangerous thing to do - therefore it shuts you down.  

Unfortunately, strategies like pianosfun's won't cut it as the mechanism pre-dates consciousness (and therefore thought) by quite a few million if not billion years - there's no line of communication (your eyes connect directly to the reptile brain).  Pianosfun is on the right track with visualization but it's a far more practical aspect that's required.  If you can see yourself playing each note of your concert programme inside your head perfectly then you'll be fine.  I find the mechanism has no access to the imagination.   Beta blockers work by shielding you from some of the chemicals that shut you down, not that I'd take them.

That's also, incidentally, how marketing works - goes straight for the wannabe reptile!   

[slane]

Give up caffeine! And I mean all caffeine. Coffee, tea, gurana, decaf and chocolate. You can eat white chocolate. Works for me!

[bronnestam]

I am good as visualisation techniques and hypnose. I mean very good. I have achieved many things through this. But I have trouble with stage fright because ... when I visualise myself on stage, at the piano, I CANNOT get rid of the terrible feeling with shaky, cold hands and a brain that feels like melting ice-cream. I still have to work with this ...

[hardy_practice]

Don't visualize yourself on stage.  You make sure you can play your whole programme note-for-note on a keyboard in your head - that's all, but then that's saying a lot.

[slane]

Spend 2 minutes before the performance in a power pose...
https://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are.html

[indianajo]

Play for audiences that didn't pay and don't care to listen.  Nursing homes, charity dinners,  Sunday school assemblies.  I played for a junior choir for a couple of years and as they got better, I got better.  I'm really a very shy person, but in a group being together helps. 
No tranquilizers for me.  My stomach has enough trouble processing the anti-sneezers, the NSAID's for my ex-Army knees, the antacids to cover the NSAID's. 

[minimax]

Since we are mostly schooled in life and not educated, we lack knowledge about who we really are and how to handle ourselves. It took me 40 something years to get it, prompted by mess I created in my life for myself and my family. I do not regret it as it was the best thing that could have happened to me, as I am in control of my life right now. I will share with you what I learned and point you in a direction that I went. Each of you reading this will have to find your own way, should you decide to follow it.
Would I put pills in my body because some idiot shrink thinks so? Hell no. A lot of them a clueless and seems that the only think they know is how to prescribe overpriced “ wonder” pills, which are never harmless, for which they are handsomely compensated by makers of them. Only peoples ignorance allows it. Do not be ignorant in your life! Ignorance is not a sickness and can always be cured. You do not need a lot, just a strong desire to cure it, open mind (no judgments until you will prove or disprove an idea) patience and self-work. It is that simple. I do not take credit for anything you will read below, as I did not originate that knowledge. I just applied it and it worked.

This is a very short and condensed version just to get you started.

How we work “inside”. Our thoughts start feelings, which if we do not how to handle, deposit themselves in our bodies as emotions. Since thoughts and feelings are energy, they form an electromagnetic field inside of our body, which if felt is painful and gives us sickness.  From that emotional field we get our unwanted thoughts (chatter in the mind), and if we give them our attention (life energy) we increase that energy field. Why do we give attention to that garbage? Because that energy field is our self-image (ego). We were never properly educated - and think that we are this garbage. We identify with it. Everybody we know acts the same way so we think it is normal. It is not! Why is that? When we are young, we are programed by society, parents, family, friends, teachers – their view of things becomes ours – and to be precise – their thoughts and connected feelings become ours. Since that energy is a thing that moves us to action, we behave in some situations exactly like people from whom we unconsciously absorbed the programing. Just look at you and your parents. Most of the people I know, with myself in that group, absorbed a lot of negatives. We are scared of some many things in life and a lot of us mostly deny it – to feel better. What are you scared of? You are not good enough, not ready to perform, you will make mistakes (fill the rest in). These are just stupid thoughts, which are coming from your programing, your experiences (memory of them), and vision of future – which is imagined and not real (but mey be real if you give enough attention to that garbage). Your mind is not in the NOW of things, in reality, but in the future that does not yet exist, but is influenced by your thinking, or in the past (judging yourselves or others). If you are nervous before performance it means you gave attention to thoughts coming from energy field of fear. Since that electromagnetic field of emotions impacts your nervous system – you hand may shake, you skin may sweat. So, what is needed to stop the chain reaction? Stop paying attention to thoughts which are not real! It is that simple, and at the same time hard to accomplish, if you were not trained to do it. Can you train yourselves? YES, YES and one more time YES. Age does not matter. 

How to do it?

Since we know already that energy of thoughts and feelings accumulates as emotions in the body, we can watch the coming thoughts and ask ourselves what feeling gave us that “gem idea” (sarcasm on my part). Lester Levenson gave a basic list of nine (9) feelings: apathy, grief, fear, lust, anger, pride, courageousness, acceptance, peace. When we get an answer from the mind (first thought), we want to know where in the body it is located – we want to feel it. Most of us run away from those feelings, read we suppress them, it will be hard for a beginner to feel it. The older we get, the bigger the accumulated “garbage field” is in the body and more suppressed by us it is. So we need to allow ourselves to feel it. We do it by formulating thoughts accordingly. Example: “I allow myself to recognize and feel thoughts and connected with them feelings”. Form of it is not important and we do not need say them – we can just think them. When we get the proper answer as to what feeling brought a certain thought, we can just say that we wish to drop the feeling and all thoughts connected with it. Later when we get good at it and increase our ability to concentrate, we will be able to recognize that energy field as “swinging wave” (do not be scared of it) inside the body. With that ability it will be easier to get rid of the garbage. What will increase the speed of releasing is finding which programs the thoughts and feelings accumulate in, and removing the. But this you have to find out on your own by reading material Lester Levenson gave us in his Sedona Method.

What else you will get from it?

If you will follow reference materials you may find out, in time, who you really are - as opposed to what you believe to be. You body will feel lighter, things will work better for you. If you gonna go all the way – happiness and freedom will be you constant companion in life. Sound good? It is not a joke. But you have to prove it to yourselves. Do not believe in anything I wrote or you will read. Believe will get you bound to your mind and it will be you master. You want to be its master and have your mind as a tool to use. Learn to use it. Detachment from the mind comes with understanding how thing really are and not how we think they are.

Reference to get you started: let google be your friend.

Lester Levenson/ Sedona Method (https://www.sedona.com/Home.asp)

“The Ultimate Goal” in MP3 form
“The Ultimate Truth” in pdf form.
No attachments no aversions – book where describes how he lived before and after self-realization – Very Good.

Eckhart Tolle

“The New Earth” - (pain body – ego - how it works)
“Power of Now” - (beginning most important - as he describes what is our natural state)

Billy Meier -  Spiritual teachings. I value this source the most. It is controversial (you will find out why) but may give you the most, assuming you will have open mind. It requires self-work.
“The Psyche” (book) - You can buy it at Theyfly.com
“Might of Thoughts” -  same as above
https://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Main_Page – links will point to many other places

Nisagaddata Maharaj:

“I am That” - amazing book that will speed up detachment from the mind.


P.S.
I am beginner in learning the piano. This is my giving back and thank you, for all the great post I have found on this forum.

[minimax]

If you want to learn faster how to be less nervous - do this mental trick. As soon as any negative thoughts come, recall back from memory, anything from your life experience that you consider happy, that gave you good feelings. Or create a mental image of something that you will find pleasing, for example “waterfall” . Keep it in the mind until negativity passes. Always use the same “thought image” (you can combine it with visuals). With time you will learn to do it very quickly, and will keep at bay negative feelings.

Comes from Billy Meier. 

[hardy_practice]

How we work “inside”. Our thoughts start feelings,

I'm afraid I need to stop you there.  It's the other way around - feelings, emotions condense to form thoughts.  Sadly, that kinda makes what follows in your post fall apart. 

[minimax]

I'm afraid I need to stop you there.  It's the other way around - feelings, emotions condense to form thoughts.  Sadly, that kinda makes what follows in your post fall apart. 

You are entitled to your opinion. I did not post this information to argue what was first chicken or an egg. I have my opinion of it, and my experience behind it, which you disagree with and it is OK with me. This is mostly about finding out if there is any suppressed energy in a body. I did find out for myself what is true. I will not debate it, as it is pointless. You either talk about it or do it. If anyone will have specific questions to the practical part of it, and I am assuming the person asking bothered to follow and read references, I will gladly provide my take on it.

[hardy_practice]

It's not just a matter of chicken/egg.  Statements like this below just don't work.  

How we work “inside”. Our thoughts start feelings, which if we do not how to handle, deposit themselves in our bodies as emotions.

William James, MR psychology himself, made it clear in the 19th century that emotions create thoughts.  Get it the wrong way round and you're talking nonsense and certainly not being very helpful - well meaning though I'm sure you are.

YOU are just the froth of an amazing and powerful organism - start from there.

[minimax]

It's not just a matter of chicken/egg.  Statements like this below just don't work.  
 William James, MR psychology himself, made it clear in the 19th century that emotions create thoughts.  Get it the wrong way round and you're talking nonsense and certainly not being very helpful - well meaning though I'm sure you are.

If you take time, be attentive and go over the first three sentences of a second paragraph of my first post, you will find the same statement there. I will repeat it again – it is irrelevant to the point you are making. What you may not know from your experience is that in our natural state there are no thoughts coming from emotions, as there is no emotional field in the body. We feel free and peaceful inside. We can generate thoughts, and feeling will follow. What is more amazing is that if you want to change your feeling you only need to change you thoughts. It takes just 3 to 4 seconds for a feeling to be recognized. This you need to prove for yourself in you experience and not just find in a book. Do not take what I wrote as true also, as it will get you bound to you ego/mind.

YOU are just the froth of an amazing and powerful organism - start from there.

Body is really an amazing and powerful organism, but we are not the body. Body is in me. This is my everyday experience. It may not be yours, but if you gonna go by school knowledge all your life you will never find out what is true. I was like you some time ago. Fortunately “ I have seen the light” and went on a quest of proving ideas. It forced me to drop my EGO believes, which was not easy.

[hardy_practice]

What you may not know from your experience is that in our natural state there are no thoughts coming from emotions, as there is no emotional field in the body. We feel free and peaceful inside. We can generate thoughts, and feeling will follow. What is more amazing is that if you want to change your feeling you only need to change you thoughts.

No.  Thoughts are generated by emotions.  If 'we can generate thoughts' it's our emotions doing the generating.  You can have a state of no thoughts but not one of no emotion.  Emotions are the body's warning system - god forbid anything could shut them down!  As for the rest of your post sorry, just can't follow it squire.

[gregh]

No.  Thoughts are generated by emotions.  

I've had emotions occur only after giving some thought to things, to interpret them and decide what they mean. Or simply to trigger a memory. Not that I would maintain that thoughts DON'T generate emotions--something like human mental processes can never be as simple as "A follows from B"--thoughts affect emotions, thoughts affect thoughts, emotions affect thoughts, emotions affect emotions, all at the same time and recursively.

Not that this is any help to nervous piano players.

[hardy_practice]

I've had emotions occur only after giving some thought to things,

You mean you didn't feel you should 'give some thought to things'?  Anyway, this does all help.  It helps those who do all this positive thinking stuff and get no results - knowing why lowers the level of frustration and anxiety.

[jollisg]

The professors I have met (i live in Sweden) always teach that you should yes your nervousness as an advantage. When you have some nervousness, your mind becomes clear and your concentration will imorove. It takes a lot of work to come there (I'm not quite there yet), but I like the approach.

[minimax]

The professors I have met (i live in Sweden) always teach that you should yes your nervousness as an advantage. When you have some nervousness, your mind becomes clear and your concentration will imorove. It takes a lot of work to come there (I'm not quite there yet), but I like the approach.

When You accept it – you allow it to be – hence you do not want to suppress it, at that specific moment. Accepting is the way to go!! Usually what you feel (it depends on each person's structure of a thoughts/feeling world) is only a tip of the iceberg, as the rest is compressed in your body. What you may try to do, is to just watch what you feel in a moment. Try to give it a name - means finding which felling it is – apathy, grief, fear, lust, anger, pride, courageousness, acceptance or peace. It may be more then one feeling, but one will be dominant. If you can name it - you can let it go. If you do not know what it is that you feel, you are usually unconsciously afraid of it. What you may feel at the time when you go trough that list in your mind - you will feel slight contraction in the body, when you get to the right one. At the beginning, most of the time it will be the bottom part of the list. When you accept and observe the feeling, you are not IT anymore, you are the AWARENESS of it (mind feels more clear). You are detached from that what you observe, and just by staying in that observing mode – you will notice that the feeling will start dissipating and within some time it will be gone. Next one may come. This way you will teach yourself how to remove nervousness. Try it until it happens for you. Be persistent.

After major releases of the suppressed energy, mind for a time becomes clear, but it will get “ mental fog” back. Only when you let go of all suppressed emotions – you mind becomes permanently clear.

[hardy_practice]

There's your answer - become a Buhddist!

[ride800rmk]

This is also my biggest problem.. when im alone at home I play awesome and I can really feed my emotions into what I play but the second someone walks into the room or asks me "play us something" I freeze up and I feel like I suck at the piano.. it is terrible. I have tried for years to beat this and cant. I have also considered taking beta blockers at least at first until I get more used to performing.. but im scared of the risks and the addictive side of it.. :/

[slane]

The top story on TED this week...
https://www.ted.com/talks/joe_kowan_how_i_beat_stage_fright.html

Not really helpful, but funny.

I forgot to mention my basic way of focussing on the music and not what people are thinking, is to sing along. You'll notice lots of professional pianists do that and glenn gould was famous for it.
I find if I'm singing , I can't think about what people are thinkig. It seems to be because both engage some vocal part of my brain.

Somebody said there's not enough singing at the piano ... I think it was Ben Zander ... maybe not.

[faa2010]

I know some things:

1. Remember that you are playing because you enjoy it. Sometimes the joy changes into a burden if you start to take it seriously. I know that it is easier saying than doing it, but if you think in the activity as something to enjoy, you won't care of everything else and you can relax.

2. Try to practice one or two days before the performance in the place where it will be done. Many musicians do it, even some hours before the performance.

[100mm]

If you have an anxiety problem (which I suffered from for a long time) drugs are the worst thing ever. Believe me, I used them. You start feeling like you won't be able to do anything without them. If it's just the nerves though, before performance or stage fright, maybe doing something silly would help, like, I sometimes get myself weird socks and even though no one can see them when I'm on stage, it amuses me to know that I have neon pink cat printed socks and takes my mind off of things.

About the anxiety part: Nowadays I drink chamomille tea. Most of the herbal teas have natural sedatives that calm your nerves. Also somebody said don't eat chocolate but actually chocolate helps me relax too because I love it so much.

So maybe, find your own rutine, something that makes you feel at home and you will be alright.

[hardy_practice]

Love your spelling of rutine!  Is it part of the cat socks methodology?

[louispodesta]

I know someone who took Beta Blockers to calm nerves before a performance.   This person also teaches and recommended this to the parents of her non adult students as a good method of calming nerves before a performance or exam.    I would not take a drug for nerves as this is dangerous and you can get hooked.

There are better more natural ways of calming nerves.    If I  was a parent being told by my childs teacher that Beta Blockers would help, I would think twice about continuing with the teacher.   

Maybe that is just me, so what do others think and how do you calm nerves.   

I have addressed this matter in another post, some time ago.  However, I will do so again.

First, no teacher of any child should be recommending any type of drug, supplement, or other product, even if it is aspirin, to one of their students, (UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!)

Second, most of those reading this are adults.  Therefore, the use of Inderal (which is the Beta Blocker most often recommended) is quite appropriate.

I have had tremors, since birth (62 years).  When I first played my senior jury, I started shaking so hard, I thought I was going to have a stroke.

Later on, I shared my story of this complete failure with a concert pianist, who was finishing up his studies with John Perry.  He then, as a matter of fact, asked me whether or not I had heard of Inderal.

To cut to the chase, when I played my next jury, for the very first time in my life, I was not nervous.  I actually started to quietly giggle in the middle of one of my pieces because the nerve monkey was off my back forever!

That was back in 1981, and since then the only time I use a small dose of this NON-NARCOTIC DRUG is before a performance.  Non-narcotic means it is non addictive, other than psychologically (which is possible with substances ranging from popcorn to chocolate).

Third, once the nerves set in a performance, the adrenal glands are pumping their stuff into the bloodstream and no amount of cosmic consciousness is going to reverse the musculoskeletal process associated with that process.  That is why the Inderal works so well because it keeps the Adrenal Glands in check.

For the record, most DMA's cannot pursue a concert pianist career because their nerves are shot.  It is blatantly stupid not to use Inderal before a concert because some idiotic John Wayne logic, taught to you since birth, says that if you are for real you should be able to tough it out.

Finally, I have been trained in Neurofeedback, which makes a huge difference in the overall nervous system of a performer.  The initial studies involving pianists were done at the Royal Conservatory many years ago, and the results were most promising.

[100mm]

Love your spelling of rutine!  Is it part of the cat socks methodology?

Haha It should have been routine but I'm not a native speaker, my spelling suffers after writing at lenght.

But yes, what I wanted to say was, we get nervous because we take our performance seriously and we want to be perfect. But it shouldn't mean that we shouldn't have fun. If you take some of e seriousness out, than maybe you can relax a little bit.

[in31l]

Not sure what beta blockers you're talking about but you can't get addicted to beta blockers like Propanolol or Clonazepam. ESPECIALLY if you're only taking it for performances. You've been fed some misinformation about beta blockers. Or maybe you're just a paranoid person.

[louispodesta]

Not sure what beta blockers you're talking about but you can't get addicted to beta blockers like Propanolol or Clonazepam. ESPECIALLY if you're only taking it for performances. You've been fed some misinformation about beta blockers. Or maybe you're just a paranoid person.

Exactly!  Inderal is propranolol, and up until a few years ago, it was the most widely prescribed drug in the world.  Why?:  Because it is cheap, non-addictive, and it works.

You see, if your piano teacher no longer has this control over your psyche because you are no longer nervous, then he/she loses that level of control.  The point being is that the knowledge associated with taking certain beta blockers for stage fright has been around for over 35 years, so there is no excuse for the teacher of an adult withholding this information.

Finally, as I recommended in another post, it is worth the money to see an endocrinologist or a neurologist to get a prescription for this because they have way more experience in terms of the proper dosage when it comes to an individual patient.

[nyiregyhazi]

Not sure what beta blockers you're talking about but you can't get addicted to beta blockers like Propanolol or Clonazepam. ESPECIALLY if you're only taking it for performances. You've been fed some misinformation about beta blockers. Or maybe you're just a paranoid person.

Clonazepam is not a beta blocker and can be addictive. It's in the same group as diazepam ie valium.

[louispodesta]

I know someone who took Beta Blockers to calm nerves before a performance.   This person also teaches and recommended this to the parents of her non adult students as a good method of calming nerves before a performance or exam.    I would not take a drug for nerves as this is dangerous and you can get hooked.

There are better more natural ways of calming nerves.    If I  was a parent being told by my childs teacher that Beta Blockers would help, I would think twice about continuing with the teacher.   

Maybe that is just me, so what do others think and how do you calm nerves.   

F.Y.I.

Even though, it is someone dated, I consider it to be most helpful, in my opinion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/20/arts/20iht-jitters.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[in31l]

Clonazepam is not a beta blocker and can be addictive. It's in the same group as diazepam ie valium.

My mistake. However, Clonazepam is good to take before stressful situations (ie: presentations, recitals, etc.). And stuff is only addictive if you take it too much. Even if you took it once or twice a week, nothing would happen to you. If you have annual recitals, there's no way you could get hooked on Clonazepam.

[j_menz]

Clonazepam is good to take before stressful situations (ie: presentations, recitals, etc.).

It's addictive properties aside, common side effects include cognitive, memory and motor function impairment.

You may be less stressed about it, but your performance is likely to be sub-par.

[inverted]

I used to suffer intensely from stage fright and these days I have very little, and I was never really convinced by any particular remedies. I think a healthy acceptance of it is key, instead of fighting it so desperately I first realised two things:
-Fear sharpens a performance and keeps you on your toes.
-Each performance is part of a path to reducing your fear.

Even though I'm an amateur I've performed a lot of times, sometimes bad, sometimes exceptional, generally as good as it needed to be. Solo, quartets, concert bands, to the elderly, to a school crowd, busking in public, exams and competitions. I've found that consistently pushing myself well out of comfort zone and charging headlong into situations that terrified me in itself has made me completely able to control my nerves. To me self-medicating sounds insane.

If a doctor has diagnosed you with some kind of anxiety issue, go ahead, but performing in public is not some basic essential human activity - struggling with it isn't a medical disorder in itself unless its symptomatic of a wider problem. If you want to compare an opposition to medication equivalent to just telling a depressed person to cheer up go ahead, but depression is a debilitating illness that can seriously disrupt your whole life; stage fright is an inability to execute a very uncommon activity.

[anima55]

There are better more natural ways of calming nerves.    If I  was a parent being told by my childs teacher that Beta Blockers would help, I would think twice about continuing with the teacher.   

Maybe that is just me, so what do others think and how do you calm nerves.   

I agree with you completely.  Natural ways of calming nerves would be the only way to go for me.  I have suffered nerves in the past; I remember feeling very sick and faint before one early performance and when I walked onto the platform, I couldn't remember the first few bars of one of the pieces I was about to play.  Looking back, I'm not sure if I could even remember which pieces I was going to play as I walked to that piano!  However, once I sat down at the piano, it felt exactly the same as when I sat down at the piano at home when I was practising, and from there the music seemed to just play itself.  One thing I used to practise for about a week before a concert was imagine myself playing in front of an audience.  It would be a run through for me, and I would do this several times. 

When I took my recital diploma, I remember the weirdest thing happening - my right heel was shaking when I began playing making pedalling tricky at the beginning.  That had never happened to me before!  It's very weird what nerves can do.  But as someone else here said, nerves can and do liven up your performance and keep you on the ball.  If you know that you have practised as well as you possibly could, then you just have to go with the flow without projecting forwards or backwards in your mind while playing. Don't think about the audience while playing - keep focussed and let the music flow and then I believe that nerves won't let you down.  It's only when you think about the people watching you that nerves really kick in and adversely affect your playing.  So don't think about them and trust that your practice has been enough to see you through.   

So a definite no-no to any consideration of using any form of medication to calm nerves from me. 

[hfmadopter]

I've read several of the replies here but not all of them. Unfortunately there is one real and true answer to this problem. Play more in front of people. And be yourself with the people, no false impressions going in. And with that said you should have some light anxiety or anticipation. As you get better at playing in front of people you will find that this actually produces your best outcome.

Beware of a false calm ! I've had this derail me by being calm and full of confidence. The first sign of trouble and that sets off apprehension and once apprehensive the train of thought was lost in the fog mentioned by someone else. No at least for me being too calm is not the answer., Going into the performance slightly guarded but enthusiastic has worked the best for me. It doesn't matter how large or small the work you will perform. And play a notch under your very best, don't give it that last 2% you know you have in you when alone. Leave some fudge room.

Playing in front of people is always going to be different from playing in your living room alone. It is just different, so for that very reason don't expect it not to be different. That is unrealistic. Also, own your mistakes, they happen, live with it. The key is to not have a mistake derail you but be able to play through it. The fact of the matter is, we all probably would love to feel the way we do when home alone when playing in front of people ! On the other hand, with no listeners ever then it can get boring. My mind set is I don't want to do all this work just for me to hear it. So we have to go through the knocks of getting that done and come to our own terms of what is acceptable when doing so. For me it will always be with some anxiety, a little going in  anyway.

[nyiregyhazi]

Beware of a false calm ! I've had this derail me by being calm and full of confidence. The first sign of trouble and that sets off apprehension and once apprehensive the train of thought was lost in the fog mentioned by someone else. No at least for me being too calm is not the answer., Going into the performance slightly guarded but enthusiastic has worked the best for me. It doesn't matter how large or small the work you will perform. And play a notch under your very best, don't give it that last 2% you know you have in you when alone. Leave some fudge room.

Are you suggesting that fastest equals "best"? Or that you should play with marginally less than your best musicianship?

[hfmadopter]

Are you suggesting that fastest equals "best"? Or that you should play with marginally less than your best musicianship?

Fastest what ?

Musicianship is measured in many different ways. Which are you referring to ?

Actually, I think most people get my point but I also get yours LOL ..

[nyiregyhazi]

Fastest what ?

Musicianship is measured in many different ways. Which are you referring to ?

Actually, I think most people get my point but I also get yours LOL ..

Well, nobody has chimed in yet to say they know what you meant. It was an honest enquiry. When you said "best" did you mean to deliberately play beneath your best musical standards? Or was "best" used to mean "fastest"? Although there are some pieces where a hell for leather approach gives better musical results, surely you're not equating" best" with "fastest" as a norm?

[hfmadopter]

Well, nobody has chimed in yet to say they know what you meant. It was an honest enquiry. When you said "best" did you mean to deliberately play beneath your best musical standards? Or was "best" used to mean "fastest"? Although there are some pieces where a hell for leather approach gives better musical results, surely you're not equating" best" with "fastest" as a norm?

Oh, I just suspected you were headed to a point. One of well, you aren't really ready for the performance then or some such comment that would be a typical and long winded reply from some of us around here.

Of course I never mentioned speed and though it could be an issue certainly, it in and of itself is not the prime factor. Surely you have had practice sessions at home or in your studio all alone where a given piece has just gone off more spectacularly than the norm for you ? I know I have and still do. And as much as we would like to think that every performance should go so well ( for what ever reason that one went so well, or those few times it went so well, perhaps expression, perhaps general articulation, what ever the reason, to include just plain personal bliss or hype) it is not expected of myself anyway, that in performance I should stretch for that. Under pressure is not the time for it. So I will play slightly reserved, hold back a little bit. I am ( as probably most people here are) a common person with a work career ( although coming towards the end of that time in my life), not a professional concert pianist and I was taught this approach many years ago by my main teacher back then. Probably nobody is going to notice the difference and you foil the derailment that may come from that stretching of the performance.

Does that help ? And you know in the future you may bring it up a notch. One day those extra special moments in practice may become the norm for that piece, what ever the piece is and for what ever the reason was that made the performance seem extra good. And of course, some here are so nervous that they are lucky if they can get through a piece in front of people at all, so really what I'm saying is a little further down the road of performance but still can apply non the less. I've had pieces fall apart in front of people, we had work shops for that purpose, to expose our work to other students and the teacher as well. It was a great help and I feel it was a great help simply because of the exposure and repeated performance in front of others. That is why I say, the real cure to this persons problem is to play more in front of people. Not drugs, not some inner counseling but just plain more exposure. With more experience comes more security and less devastating is a missed note etc..

[nyiregyhazi]

Oh, I just suspected you were headed to a point. One of well, you aren't really ready for the performance then or some such comment that would be a typical and long winded reply from some of us around here.

Of course I never mentioned speed and though it could be an issue certainly, it in and of itself is not the prime factor. Surely you have had practice sessions at home or in your studio all alone where a given piece has just gone off more spectacularly than the norm for you ? I know I have and still do. And as much as we would like to think that every performance should go so well ( for what ever reason that one went so well, or those few times it went so well, perhaps expression, perhaps general articulation, what ever the reason, to include just plain personal bliss or hype) it is not expected of myself anyway, that in performance I should stretch for that. Under pressure is not the time for it. So I will play slightly reserved, hold back a little bit. I am ( as probably most people here are) a common person with a work career ( although coming towards the end of that time in my life), not a professional concert pianist and I was taught this approach many years ago by my main teacher back then. Probably nobody is going to notice the difference and you foil the derailment that may come from that stretching of the performance.

Does that help ? And you know in the future you may bring it up a notch. One day those extra special moments in practice may become the norm for that piece, what ever the piece is and for what ever the reason was that made the performance seem extra good. And of course, some here are so nervous that they are lucky if they can get through a piece in front of people at all, so really what I'm saying is a little further down the road of performance but still can apply non the less. I've had pieces fall apart in front of people, we had work shops for that purpose, to expose our work to other students and the teacher as well. It was a great help and I feel it was a great help simply because of the exposure and repeated performance in front of others. That is why I say, the real cure to this persons problem is to play more in front of people. Not drugs, not some inner counseling but just plain more exposure. With more experience comes more security and less devastating is a missed note etc..

Thanks for clarifying. I really couldn't agree less with your approach though. If we're were talking about lowering the tempo of a fast piece a fraction beneath the absolute limit, I'd have been a little alarmed by the reference to "best" but I'd agree on the principle. However, seeing as you've now clarified that you are referring to general musical qualities, I think this is a senseless approach to take. I can't imagine even what it would mean to be aiming for a little less than true musical ideal. For me to do such a thing (even by 2 percent) would feel like sabotage. Why would it even offer any security for me to feel that I wouldn't bother with as much musical voicing or phrase shaping as normal? All that would achieve would be to detach me from the music. Even to consciously try to play 0.1 percent less than my convictions wish me to sound would destroy everything. Either I'm striving for my ideal or I'm striving for something that isn't actually what I truly want. The moment I stop caring about making the actual sound I desire (and actively intend something even a touch more mundane) the whole process is screwed.

Neuhaus spoke of deliberately avoiding the most extreme contrasts before a performance, so you can save the emotional energy to give your very best in concert. I couldn't agree more with that. I just find it senseless to be deliberately aiming for a slightly more mundane version in concert. The only place where I believe in restricting yourself is places where sheer speed might sacrifice your best musical phrasing and voicing. Nothing else should be wilfully restrained for a performance and I really don't understand how it would even make the experience easier. To suggest that the concert "is not the time" for attempting to get the finest musical results you are capable of is simply baffling to me. It's the ONLY time people can get to an opportunity to see what your best is- which is why we should aim for just that and not some pale sanitised version. As soon as something is in the past we have to accept it. But to be aiming for less than you truly want in the present is to remove yourself from a proper music making experience.

[hfmadopter]

Thanks for clarifying. I really couldn't agree less with your approach though. If we're were talking about lowering the tempo of a fast piece a fraction beneath the absolute limit, I'd have been a little alarmed by the reference to "best" but I'd agree on the principle. However, seeing as you've now clarified that you are referring to general musical qualities, I think this is a senseless approach to take. I can't imagine even what it would mean to be aiming for a little less than true musical ideal. For me to do such a thing (even by 2 percent) would feel like sabotage. Why would it even offer any security for me to feel that I wouldn't bother with as much musical voicing or phrase shaping as normal? All that would achieve would be to detach me from the music. Even to consciously try to play 0.1 percent less than my convictions wish me to sound would destroy everything. Either I'm striving for my ideal or I'm striving for something that isn't actually what I truly want. The moment I stop caring about making the actual sound I desire (and actively intend something even a touch more mundane) the whole process is screwed.

Neuhaus spoke of deliberately avoiding the most extreme contrasts before a performance, so you can save the emotional energy to give your very best in concert. I couldn't agree more with that. I just find it senseless to be deliberately aiming for a slightly more mundane version in concert. The only place where I believe in restricting yourself is places where sheer speed might sacrifice your best musical phrasing and voicing. Nothing else should be wilfully restrained for a performance and I really don't understand how it would even make the experience easier. To suggest that the concert "is not the time" for attempting to get the finest musical results you are capable of is simply baffling to me. It's the ONLY time people can get to an opportunity to see what your best is- which is why we should aim for just that and not some pale sanitised version. As soon as something is in the past we have to accept it. But to be aiming for less than you truly want in the present is to remove yourself from a proper music making experience.

I understand your point of view. Its ok to be that way if that's what you need for yourself. I remember a time in my life when it may have mattered to me. I know I can play to my best but I need not impress anyone and I seriously doubt anyone in ny listening circle is going to know the difference when I play in front of them. There are no music scholars in my groups and if there were then well they can have my strife over a 1 or 2% loss. I'm not losing sleep over that but I might over totally flubbing up.

[nyiregyhazi]

I understand your point of view. Its ok to be that way if that's what you need for yourself. I remember a time in my life when it may have mattered to me. I know I can play to my best but I need not impress anyone and I seriously doubt anyone in ny listening circle is going to know the difference when I play in front of them. There are no music scholars in my groups and if there were then well they can have my strife over a 1 or 2% loss. I'm not losing sleep over that but I might over totally flubbing up.

Sorry, but it's a sad thing indeed if someone doesn't care about realising musical issues to the full, simply because most people won't notice. This isn't about impressing anyone. It's about being true to what you actually intend as a musician- audience or not. What you're talking about is actually of diminishing musical goals simply to impress people with something so mundane as the absence of technical breakdowns. That's certainly not more profound than wanting to impress a listener with your truest musical intention. There would be no great pianists if everyone thought based on who will notice musical detail. Sure, not everyone is Horowitz, but amateurs can make truly special sounds too if they care enough. It's a different issue if we're talking about pushing technique to breaking point for the sake of trying to generate cheap excitement. Sometimes it's better to go for it, sometimes it's better to hold back. Either way can yield the best musical result at different times. But if we're not talking about issues of whether technique is up to a wild tempo then it's a tragic loss for a performer not to be striving for the sounds that are intended. Acceptance that things don't always go as intended is fine, but a performer who doesn't even try to be performing to their musical best (even if aiming just a little below) is not being true to themself.

Quite honestly, I think how practise is done is the issue. I don't see musicality as an add on. If it throws accuracy, it suggests to me too high a percentage of cold practise. Although I'll happily do drier practise on a passage for a while, so much of the time I spend on is based on trying to reach my musical ideal, that this just feels normal. It doesn't feel at all alien or like something that would throw me. If it feels like adding musicality is something that has to be forced rather than something that is just the normal way to play (either in a practise room or concert) I'd consider how the aims in practise are being organised. If musicality feels like something that has to be forced, it's probably because practise has not succeeded in making it the norm. I struggle to believe that someone can aim for a 2 percent reduction in musicality without diminishing by a significant percentage. Either I aim for a sound I want or I don't. There's no middle ground. I'm either striving for more or I'm just not musically involved. If you're no longer striving for what you actually desire, chances are that musicality will be greatly sabotaged.

[louispodesta]

For the less informed who regularly contribute to this website, let us just cut to the chase.

There are those of us who wish engage in proper discourse.  However, you have to realize that if you do so, you will be "NYIREGHAZIED."

This man is nothing more than a Pianostreet troller run amok, that has been given free reign to bastardize this website, at will.

Shame on you, Pianostreet!

[nyiregyhazi]

For the less informed who regularly contribute to this website, let us just cut to the chase.

There are those of us who wish engage in proper discourse.  However, you have to realize that if you do so, you will be "NYIREGHAZIED."

This man is nothing more than a Pianostreet troller run amok, that has been given free reign to bastardize this website, at will.

Shame on you, Pianostreet!

Apologies for "trolling"- if that's what they currently call making contextual points with supporting reasoning. Or rather not. Sorry, but I'm not going to pull any punches when it comes to such a horrifically misplaced idea as AIMING to do less than your musical best, simply in order to minimise the likelihood of embarrassing yourself with errors. Sadly this view is all too prevalent today- which is why so many pianists can play accurately and why so few have a sound that can truly speak to people. Pianists who speak to people get there by aiming to exaggerate musical ideas, not by aiming to close things in for the sake of safety. You don't move people with the piercing intensity of your cantabile by deciding that it's a concert so you won't make so much difference between melody and accompaniment. You do it by realising that you'll need to exaggerate even further than in the practise room, even to convey half of what you have been managing in practise. The moment you start aiming for something that'll merely do, is the moment where you start making an ordinary homogenised sound. Pianists must never stop striving for more. Even amateurs with limited technique can make truly special sounds- but only if they are truly striving for them. The moment you drop your intentions for musical voicing by even 2 percent is the moment when they're as good as gone altogether- especially in a concert situation.

[hfmadopter]

For the less informed who regularly contribute to this website, let us just cut to the chase.

There are those of us who wish engage in proper discourse.  However, you have to realize that if you do so, you will be "NYIREGHAZIED."

This man is nothing more than a Pianostreet troller run amok, that has been given free reign to bastardize this website, at will.

Shame on you, Pianostreet!

Ya I know his track record. I didn't reply unguarded but wanted to give it a shot.

[in31l]

It's addictive properties aside, common side effects include cognitive, memory and motor function impairment.

You may be less stressed about it, but your performance is likely to be sub-par.

Sure, just don't take 400 of them at once. You're overreacting. They're perfectly fine to use for presentations or recitals. You won't get addicted by taking one of them. This isn't meth we're talking about. Nobody is forcing him to take them. Plus, you can't get any of this stuff without going to see a doctor first anyways. So really, it's up to his doctor. Not you or me.

[in31l]

Exactly!  Inderal is propranolol, and up until a few years ago, it was the most widely prescribed drug in the world.  Why?:  Because it is cheap, non-addictive, and it works.

You see, if your piano teacher no longer has this control over your psyche because you are no longer nervous, then he/she loses that level of control.  The point being is that the knowledge associated with taking certain beta blockers for stage fright has been around for over 35 years, so there is no excuse for the teacher of an adult withholding this information.

Finally, as I recommended in another post, it is worth the money to see an endocrinologist or a neurologist to get a prescription for this because they have way more experience in terms of the proper dosage when it comes to an individual patient.

Yes. Inderal/propanolol is the best bet. Extremely safe, and it works. Some guy is just nitpicking my post it seems. And anyways, what is the point of this thread? Just seems like a bunch of people arguing. The OP hasn't responded once to this thread, so who cares.

[kevin69]

And anyways, what is the point of this thread? Just seems like a bunch of people arguing.

Um... its an internet forum: what were you expecting?