Am I Advanced?

[kekepania]

I'm in second grade piano and I've been playing for a little over a year. My teacher suggested that I started playing Chopin's "Raindrop" Prelude and his Waltz in A minor (or was it major? I forgot.) Anyway, I am able to choose songs, too. The first piece I chose to learn when I began playing was the first movement of Moonlight Sonata. Then, over summer I learnt Chopin's Nocturne in C# Minor and I just recently finished the "Raindrop" Prelude and Nocturne in B flat Op.9 No.1. My teacher now wants me to learn the Nocturne Op.9 No.2 but I'm not sure if I'm able to just yet, so I chose an easier one, Nocturne Op. 72 No.1. I'm wondering if I'm considered 'advanced' because my teacher keeps saying I am but I have a lot of trouble reading sheet music, so I'm thinking I can't be that ahead if I can't read music well. My teacher and my family tells me that I can play with feeling but I'm just working on dynamics? I can't tell what really makes a student advanced or not.

[emill]

Perhaps you are "advanced" if your teacher says so!!  

It is not really so much the pieces you have played at this early part of your piano education, but how you play them.  There have been so many posts in the AUDITION room of "difficult" pieces, yet fell so short of how it should be played.

There are a good number of people here who are very qualified to answer your question and I would strongly suggest that you post one or two of the pieces you have been playing. That would give them a feel and they would be able to answer your question in a more relevant manner.

[kekepania]

I was thinking about doing so but I have an extremely untuned piano. (I mean, it is really bad) Maybe I'll get someone to record me playing at my teacher's the next time I have a lesson.

[outin]

What pieces you play isn't the point, it's how you play them and how you are able to prepare them. What does advanced mean? "Far on or ahead in development or progress". It's basicly a comparison, but it is still used to describe certain level of ability. Consider the complexity of piano playing and the usual time required to achieve some basic competetency in playing (8-10 years for an average person is a wild guess) and what that competency contains. It contains the competency to prepare pieces on your own from sheet music, understanding the music and be able to execute it in a healthy way and with good sound. Compare your playing with someone who had played for 10 years and if it does sound as good and if it seems comfortable and effortless to you and the time required to learn a piece is reasonable, then I guess you would be advanced.

Piano playing is like many other complex activities, the more you learn the more you understand how little you can. That's why people often pick even rather advanced music seemingly easy, only to discover later they are missing a lot of skills actually required

[ignaceii]

May I add something to it:

Does this always implies being able to play from memory ?
And if yes, to what extent is Harmony a principle key to achieve this goal ?

I didn't follow any music school, if you read my story. So I'm missing the whole theory cycle, although I am quite good in sight reading.
My story also contains the fact that my heath is not so good.
I would like to put energy, of which I don't have much, in theory and harmony, in order to progress in the domain of analysis of pieces, being able to play by memory...
Otherwise I feel quite comfortable as it is.
Only, once the romantics come around the corner, harmonies are complexer, lot of chords, triads, and so on. I think these things should be trained upfront, by ear training, theory and harmony.

[kopower]

If you can play more complex pieces (beyond your second grade) I would say you are doing very well -and keep it up - as you may end up bring a piano maestro (and not just 'advanced')

[kekepania]

May I add something to it:

Does this always implies being able to play from memory ?
And if yes, to what extent is Harmony a principle key to achieve this goal ?

I didn't follow any music school, if you read my story. So I'm missing the whole theory cycle, although I am quite good in sight reading.
My story also contains the fact that my heath is not so good.
I would like to put energy, of which I don't have much, in theory and harmony, in order to progress in the domain of analysis of pieces, being able to play by memory...
Otherwise I feel quite comfortable as it is.
Only, once the romantics come around the corner, harmonies are complexer, lot of chords, triads, and so on. I think these things should be trained upfront, by ear training, theory and harmony.

I play all of my pieces by memory. My teacher says I'm very good at harmonizing and getting the dynamcs right. I just have to listen to the piece a few times and then it'll be set. I think it is easier to play by memory than sight reading, but that's just my preference.

[czernyragtimepianoplayer]

One thing is for sure - you're alot more advanced then I am.  I suggest you practice more so you can get into a nice music school someday....  Best of Luck!

[joplinfreak]

I once read in an old music theory book (pre 1920) if you think your advanced and your getting cocky (not that you are by any means) listen to the greats such as Beethoven, Liszt, and Chopin. You won't be advance any more, let me tell you it works. Every one applauded me for mastering Rhapsody and Blue in the short 3 years I've been playing, but the reality is I didn't write in 3 weeks time like George Gershwin nor did I play perfectly with orchestrated accompaniment. You can truly never say your advanced because there's always one more step towards mastering the piano.

By the way, is there an official test you can take to see if you are "considered" advanced (remember it's all relative )?

[j_menz]

Every one applauded me for mastering Rhapsody and Blue

What, BOTH of them?

By the way, is there an official test you can take to see if you are "considered" advanced (remember it's all relative )?

"Advanced" is part of a three stage description (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced). It doesn't mean "tremendously fabulously virtuosic" and doesn't even mean really good. Anything beyond about grade 8 or thereabouts qualifies, but it's a  broadly descriptive term, not a qualification.

[joplinfreak]

Typo: Rhapsody in Blue, thank you for pointing that out

You still didn't answer the question though, is there a test?

[kopower]

Keep working on sight reading - unfortunately no shortcut for this - then you can learn pieces even faster

[j_menz]

You still didn't answer the question though, is there a test?

There is no test you need to pass to be formally recognised as advanced.

That said, there are many tests which, have you passed them, you would be so described.

[kekepania]

Keep working on sight reading - unfortunately no shortcut for this - then you can learn pieces even faster

That would be great. On average, it takes me about 1-2 weeks to learn a piece, so when I'm able to read music better, I'll be able to learn more pieces. 

[joplinfreak]

That said, there are many tests which, have you passed them, you would be so described.

What are they? Not intending on hijacking the thread just curious.

[j_menz]

What are they? Not intending on hijacking the thread just curious.

Any of the recognised music accreditation ones (AMEB, Trinity, RCM, ABRSM etc etc...), or any uni qualification in performance.

[joplinfreak]

Lots of questions sorry

1. What would be qualifications performance wise?
2. Would they be perhaps internationally recognized pieces of difficulty such as Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 or Moonlight sonata?
3. How can I officially perform to see if I am advanced?
4. Would I have to be scrutinized by experts on posture, fingering, and music theory in general?
5. If I attained a college degree in piano music would that make me advanced?   

I probably already know the answer to this, but it's always good to cultivate multiple opinions.

[czernyragtimepianoplayer]

If one can get a D.M.A. in piano performance, that's short for 'Doctor of Musical Arts - in piano performance....', from a 'good' Music School (Conservatory); yes, then you're most likely considered an "Advanced Pianist", but you'd also need to prove your worth by doing some World Tours in your piano performance, and 'show' that your really advanced, special 'Auditions' would show that IF you can pass them for alreadt Advanced Pianists - the will judge YOU, trust me!  That's all I care to say anymore regarding this 'issue' of yours....  Bye.  Have a nice day!

[j_menz]

Lots of questions sorry

And all of them somewhat misguided.

"Advanced" isn't a specific degree, or qualification, or grade, it's a broad generalisation. It doesn't mean super-virtuoso, or professional, or concert-pianist. It just means you play reasonably hard stuff and do so most of the time.

You're overthinking it.

[outin]

And all of them somewhat misguided.

"Advanced" isn't a specific degree, or qualification, or grade, it's a broad generalisation. It doesn't mean super-virtuoso, or professional, or concert-pianist. It just means you play reasonably hard stuff and do so most of the time.

You explain it well, but do you think one could be described advanced if one plays reasonably hard stuff most of the time, but very badly? Because in that case it is possible for anyone to become advanced in a rather short time

[mjedwards]

     So many ill-defined, vague terms are being used that I find the whole debate rather futile.  There must be a thousand definitions of what "advanced" means - I have no idea whether I myself would meet many of them.
     I would suggest just continuing to work on the music you want to, and not getting hung up on whether others consider you advanced or not.  Opinions on that will always vary, anyway - and they won't always be well-informed opinions.

Regards, Michael.