Advice out of experience.. Going to conservatory?

[chopin4life]

Hi all!!

Let me introduce myself first. I'm a belgian student of 17 years old, so I'm in my last but one year at high school. I have been following piano lessons since I was 10 years old and to give you an idea, I'm now playing pieces like: Beethoven's fifth sonata, brahms op. 118, bach 3-part inventions and studies from moskowski and czerny (op. 740). Not that I'm a super talent (not at all!!), but I have a very good teacher, who teaches me to play those pieces as good as I can manage (she doesn't want me to play too difficult pieces and get only 50% out of it). Only one thing is crystalclear: music is and will always be my passion.

As I have only one year left to choose what I'm going to do with my further life, the idea of becoming a professional pianist started to hunt me. But there are a lot of doubts. As I stated above, I'm not a supertalent, but music is my passion. I don't know what my future would be like, if I would become a pianist and I'm not sure if I'm able to devote MY ENTIRE LIFE to the piano. Besides that, I'm doing good at school. I'm pretty good at sciences and mathematics (don't want to Boast) so I could also become an engineer for example.

I just don't know what to do and how I have to make a choice, so I ask you guys, who have got experience with this, who faced the same problem, to give me some advice.

Thank you in advance!!
Fred

[faulty_damper]

Don't go to college for a music degree.  That's stupid.  You're also incredibly idealistic which means you have very little life experience outside of school.  School is a fish tank.  A university is just a bigger one with an actual opening from which life enters and exits but you'll never realize it until you become an academic, which you probably wouldn't want to be.

No one cares if you are passionate or not.  In reality, it's something people say but it has no substance whatsoever.  It just sounds good to hear.  I knew dozens of people who were passionate about piano but played poorly.  Some of them are in doctoral programs.  I am not passionate about playing at all; I just do it very well.  Passion and competence are two very different things that only have an incidental relationship so do not confuse the two.

To speak about passion: passion is something you have when you put in an incredible amount of effort and NOT achieve it.  In other words, you have to be incompetent to a certain degree in order to be passionate about anything.  Otherwise, you'll actually be doing it which means it's easy.  Like walking.  I've never met anyone who was passionate about walking except for toddlers who've just learned how.

[nyiregyhazi]

Don't go to college for a music degree.  That's stupid.  You're also incredibly idealistic which means you have very little life experience outside of school.  School is a fish tank.  A university is just a bigger one with an actual opening from which life enters and exits but you'll never realize it until you become an academic, which you probably wouldn't want to be.

No one cares if you are passionate or not.  In reality, it's something people say but it has no substance whatsoever.  It just sounds good to hear.  I knew dozens of people who were passionate about piano but played poorly.  Some of them are in doctoral programs.  I am not passionate about playing at all; I just do it very well.  Passion and competence are two very different things that only have an incidental relationship so do not confuse the two.

To speak about passion: passion is something you have when you put in an incredible amount of effort and NOT achieve it.  In other words, you have to be incompetent to a certain degree in order to be passionate about anything.  Otherwise, you'll actually be doing it which means it's easy.  Like walking.  I've never met anyone who was passionate about walking except for toddlers who've just learned how.

Sorry but that last comment is extremely silly and makes me presume you probably play competently but ordinarily. Were it not for the fact that so many great pianists are exceedingly passionate about pianism, it might be possible to take that seriously. As it is, your post paints a picture of someone who plays with competence but little but functional expression. If I'm wrong (in a world where most pianists have a dull and run of the mill sound) you should upload evidence before making such irrational correlations between lack of passion and ability/passion coupled with inability. I'll tell you if I'm moved or as deeply uninspired as you were.

If you play piano as if to to get from one place to another (rather than to fulfill an emotional need to express yourself) I'm afraid that's a sad reflection of you (and not of the great artists) that inspires no expectation of any notable or rare levels of musical expression. I may be wrong about you, but your idea that passion and incompetence correlate is absurd nonsense.

Someone who finds things easy yet who has no burning urge to transcend greater limits of sound and expression is an incompetent musician by definition, even if competent as a craftsman.

[swagmaster420x]

To speak about passion: passion is something you have when you put in an incredible amount of effort and NOT achieve it.  In other words, you have to be incompetent to a certain degree in order to be passionate about anything.  Otherwise, you'll actually be doing it which means it's easy.  Like walking.  I've never met anyone who was passionate about walking except for toddlers who've just learned how.

This is one of the stupidest, most harmful and misinformed notions that has been stated with complete seriousness on this forum. Passion is another form of talent. It often is what begets true skill.

Edit: actually, it sort of makes sense, if you consider that most people who are good at something tend to view themselves as incompetent... As in they can always get better somehow

[Bob]

Go for the money.  Be an engineer. Do piano on the side when you can.

[brogers70]

No one cares if you are passionate or not.  In reality, it's something people say but it has no substance whatsoever.  It just sounds good to hear.  I knew dozens of people who were passionate about piano but played poorly.  Some of them are in doctoral programs.  I am not passionate about playing at all; I just do it very well.  Passion and competence are two very different things that only have an incidental relationship so do not confuse the two.

I definitely agree to the extent that I think the whole "follow your passion" thing has gotten out of hand. And certainly talking about your passion is often a lot of hot air. If you want to show someone you are passionate about music, play music for them really well, or talk about music, but don't talk about yourself and your passion.

[lelle]

To speak about passion: passion is something you have when you put in an incredible amount of effort and NOT achieve it.  In other words, you have to be incompetent to a certain degree in order to be passionate about anything.  Otherwise, you'll actually be doing it which means it's easy.  Like walking.  I've never met anyone who was passionate about walking except for toddlers who've just learned how.

What? I recently had the pleasure of meeting a fantastic teacher. She was extremely passionate about teaching, and she was also very good at it. A better way to link passion and incompetence is that you need passion to persevere even when you know you are incompetent. So passion is definitely a good thing to have when studying something. I would love to be able to draw but I am not passionate enough about it to practise until I get good. Also, did you just claim that every proffesional musician who has mastered their craft are not passionate about playing?

[Bob]

Whichever way you go, the grass is always greener on the other side.  I'd do both, but have something steady for a job.  Money makes things easier.

[faulty_damper]

I specifically stated that passion and competence are two independent things.  You can be incredibly competent and not passionate and vice versa.  Nearly everyone I've met who were incredibly passionate about piano playing were not good at it.  Why?  Because they are stuck at the level they are unable to improve.  They have no other choice but to resolve that cognitive dissonance so they fetishize their practice as serving a greater good.  This is why I say that to be passionate, you must be, to a certain degree, incompetent.  This is one of the ways a person can justify endless hours practicing and NOT improve.

[lelle]

Being passionate about piano playing is not automatically the same thing as "fetishizing your practise as serving a greater good".

[faulty_damper]

But that's exactly what I'm saying passion is.  Kind of like the cellists who have F hole tattoos on their backs but who can't really play the cello.

[lelle]

But that's exactly what I'm saying passion is.  Kind of like the cellists who have F hole tattoos on their backs but who can't really play the cello.

Then we have completely different definitions of what being passionate means.

Let's take the teacher I mentioned before as an example. She was bloody good at teaching and she loved to do it. She was just full of energy and inspiration. I'd say she was passionate about teaching. What would you call it?

Also, why does it matter that somebody likes something even if they are not good at it? You seem to be saying that I am not allowed get a piano related tattoo before I've mastered the Chopin etudes or something.

[outin]

I'm a belgian student

I can not advice you much on the subject, but be careful when reading the posts here. Majority of them are by people from US. Since you are from Belgium, it would be best to seek advice from people who have studied in your own country or at least in Europe. There are big differences in education and what you get out of a degree in Europe can be quite different to what you get in US. Also some work options that pianists have in US (like being a church musician) hardly exist in many other places.

In my own country (Finland) most piano students end up as teachers, but many still also perform. A handful can manage only with performing, but that requires them to either do much more than classical or go abroad. Success as a performer does require some talent, persistence, a lot of work, ability to form connections and also good luck.

[gregh]

Mr. Damper may not be expressing the popular opinion, and you might be able to pick fault out of his words, but there's wisdom in them, too.

Being passionate about something doesn't mean you will find success doing it. Just look at professional athletics--do you think there are only that many people who were passionate about sports when they were younger? In the world of science, more students graduate with a PhD in a science then there are jobs for PhD-level graduates, so there are a lot of people passionate about science who are working in retail or transportation or something (I'm one of them, with a PhD in physics, and that will color my views a bit).

On the other hand, by the time you finish your training and find success, well, the honeymoon will be long over. You have maybe six months to a year before your brain chemistry returns to normal, and then you'll be working at the level of habit and intellectual interest--romance gives way to marriage for the long-haul. Certainly there has to be a drive to maintain and improve, you have to enjoy it well enough, but the professional can give a brilliant performance and then go home and turn on the football game, and turn his mind to other things.

[chopin4life]

Well what I actually just want to know now is: who among you are professional pianists and how did you make the decision of becoming it?

[chopin4life]

Oh and I'm sorry Mr. Damper.. I think I have much more life experience outside of school than you could ever imagine! This is a piano forum, you shouldn't 'assume' things about other people. You don't know me and I asked a normal question in which I tried to describe my situation.

Of course nothing personal Mr. Damper 

[anima55]

Hi
Playing the piano has always been my passion.  From the age of 6, I could always be found playing the piano in every spare moment I could find. I always felt that piano was my life and without the piano there would be no life.  So yes, I was extremely passionate about it in my youth.

I began performing not because I wanted to particularly, but because I was asked to and the better I became, the more I believed it was what I wanted to do.  But I discovered that performing was not my passion.  Playing the piano is my passion.  The two are not the same, at least for me.

If you go to a conservatoire, you will have the opportunity for a top notch teacher, and if you are good enough, will find opportunities for performing.  But many pianists who go to a conservatoire don't end up performing; they become private teachers or in the UK can go on to become school music teachers.  

I thoroughly enjoyed my time at the conservatoire I attended and feel honoured to have had an excellent teacher who believed in me.  And I have fond memories of the concerts I did before I quit.  But in all honesty, I'm not totally convinced I would make the same choices again.  I discovered, although I think I already knew, that it was not performing which was my passion, but playing the piano.  Just playing the piano is my personal passion and I do enjoy teaching it to a degree but it is the playing itself which I so much enjoy.

So basically, my thoughts are that no matter what career you take up, if your passion is playing the piano, that will remain for life.  I can guarantee that because I'm getting on in years now and am still just as passionate about playing as I ever have been.  But I realise now that I could have retained that passion and taken a different career which might have offered more stability, possibly!  Although I do like teaching, I must admit that being a self employed piano teacher isn't perhaps as stable or lucrative as some other careers I could think of.

If you can see yourself as a performer of some kind, or teaching as a private teacher or at a school, then I would consider a conservatoire as a definite option.  If, however, you're not totally sure if you are good enough to make the grade as a performer and/or not certain that your would enjoy the life style of a performer, or you don't necessarily like the thought of teaching for the rest of your life, then perhaps consider a different career and keep your piano playing as an interest your are particularly passionate about.

In many ways, the performing life of a pianist can be very lonely and it is not everyone's cup of tea by any means.  Many enjoy it, but I discovered it didn't offer the life style I personally wanted.  And although there have been occasions when I have perhaps regretted quitting, in my heart, I know that what I am passionate about most is when I am playing the piano, not for someone else, but for me! That has been a consistent driving force throughout my life.

I offer these thoughts only for consideration because at the end of the day, we are all different and my experience, expectations and goals are likely to be very different from yours.

Good luck!

[faulty_damper]

Oh and I'm sorry Mr. Damper.. I think I have much more life experience outside of school than you could ever imagine! This is a piano forum, you shouldn't 'assume' things about other people. You don't know me and I asked a normal question in which I tried to describe my situation.

Of course nothing personal Mr. Damper 

The same to you.

[bernadette60614]

There is a very good documentary I'd like to suggest titled: They Came to Play. 

The documentary is about the Van Cliburn competition for amateur (i.e., those who do not make a living as pianists) pianists.  The competitors include former conservatory students who are now i.t. professionals, a surgeon who has a master's in piano performance, a lawyer who plays with incredible devotion.

None of these makes a living as a musician.

The point being: Piano can be your passion without being your livelihood.

[bernadette60614]

I should also add:  Very few of us are the Olympians of our professions.  I"m certainly not the very best at what I do in the world, but I'm very good at what I do, I take it seriously and even though I've been in my current profession for 25 years there is never a day that goes by that I'm not aware that I could be better.

I think it is that knowledge and the striving to make oneself improve that is excellence.

You can be an excellent musician, without being the most talented of musicians, by my above definition.