CanNOT play the piano?

[m1469]

How would you define being unable to play the piano?  Either yourself or people in the world.

[Bob]

People who say they can't.  Because they won't.  And not being able to reinforces that.  I've heard several people spew out that line of thinking. 

[go12_3]

"Cannot" meaning not willing to play or not learning to play the piano? 
There are those that don't show an interesting in playing the piano...that is what
"canNOT" play the piano. 

[Bob]

The people I've run into who were like that were perfectly capable of learning.  It was like a crutch/excuse for them.  For anything I mentioned, there was a reason, something external, that prevented them from being capable.  They're just not musical.  They're family member(s) aren't musical.  Yadda, yadda, yadda.  It gets old fast.  I gave up after a few people.  

It was also the usual adult hyper judgment.  Touch the piano...
Oh, that's so bad sounding.  Doesn't it sound so bad?  
Bob:  Sounds like a person who first touched a piano. Sounds normal.  You could start playing something within the first lesson.
Oh, I could never do that.  
Bob:  Thirty minutes a day.  You'd see a lot of improvement at first without a huge amount of effort.
I don't have a musical bone in my body. The only the thing I can play is the radio.
Bob:  ...

It usually goes along with them having fun with it, laughing at being ignorant, and possibly trying to get approval for that.  I've thought about if it were a different topic -- "I can't read.  Isn't that funny?"  "I remember they mentioned multiplication in school but I didn't pay any attention.  I've seen people who can add numbers without even thinking about it."

[m1469]

I will say that, I don't know if I have ever seen a single student who I believe would truly be incapable of playing.  I have always seen it as a mental barrier, especially toward an inability or lack of desire to really focus deeply on what they are doing, with a particular idea or goal in mind.  Or, an unwillingness to repeat a smaller portion of music several times to perfect it - me:  "Ok, now repeat that 2 more times."  "Ahhh... do I have to?"    The idea of "building" something rather than just playing through everything as is doesn't seem to come easily to one and all, though obviously it does for some better than others.  

Well, I could go on some giant tangents regarding that stuff, but I think it especially boils down to individuals not understanding the connection between focused effort and a certain quality of results.  Or, especially for younger students, they have no idea what is possible in general, so if they can play Fur Elise in any way, unless they have heard somebody better play, it's easy to misunderstand what can really be done on the instrument (and how those results come about) and they are happy to settle.  For adults, it is misunderstood in the world in general what they can do at the instrument (or pretty much anything at all that they may be starting anew as adults), so many of them are starting with an awareness of a social prejudice - they believe they can't expect to highly achieve, even with a solid effort, so their goals as well as effort tend to float around in no man's land.

[j_menz]

I will say that, I don't know if I have ever seen a single student who I believe would truly be incapable of playing.

One suspects most of the people unable to play the piano aren't actually having piano lessons, either by circumstance or by choice. 

[m1469]

One suspects most of the people unable to play the piano aren't actually having piano lessons, either by circumstance or by choice.  

Then allow me to rephrase.  I suspect that just about anybody on earth could be capable of playing the piano provided they can focus on tasks in both the short term and the long term.  

Does a person who has come to my studio for one lesson and not again, count as somebody who "is taking" piano lessons or who "is not" ... because I've seen plenty of those, too.  Believe me, I've had a sizable variety of students -probably a (much?) greater variety than many if not most people here have ever or will ever have (I am always open to being corrected!)- and I feel as qualified as most to say what I did.  

[outin]

How would you define being unable to play the piano?  Either yourself or people in the world.

Not being able to reproduce on the piano what I hear in my head  I guess...

[j_menz]

Then allow me to rephrase.  I suspect that just about anybody on earth could be capable of playing the piano provided they can focus on tasks in both the short term and the long term.  

First they would require a piano, or access to one, and some stimulus to direct them (either an interest or a pushy parent etc).

[czernyragtimepianoplayer]

You should try much harder to not be so very judgmental of others, j_menz, your making 'waves' here is not good, not good for you at all...

[czernyragtimepianoplayer]

Please don't make any more 'waves' with 'me', j_menz, hope you get my meaning, and I have reported you to the site here, so try to mind your 'manners', please, thank you - in advance!

[j_menz]

hope you get my meaning

The use of single quotes around " 'me' ", I confess, confuses me totally.

[mjames]

Please don't make any more 'waves' with 'me', j_menz, hope you get my meaning, and I have reported you to the site here, so try to mind your 'manners', please, thank you - in advance!

lol

[mystic_dreamer]

Not being able to reproduce on the piano what I hear in my head  I guess...

That was my reason for quitting.  I simply could not play what I wanted to play.  And I'm not talking about stuff way beyond my "level".   I'm talking about being able to play even simple pieces and having them sound the way that I truly wanted them to sound.  I gave it a very dedicated go for 3 years and I simply wasn't progressing to the point where I felt I should be after that much time and effort invested.

A second issue too was that my fingers simply would not do what I wanted them to do.  And by that I mean that I could not phrase the notes the way that I wanted them to come out.  I truly felt that this was a physical barrier in my hands and fingers.  It wasn't a mental thing at all.  My hands simply would not do what I wanted them to do.  Period.

I think many people have limitations. In fact, we know that this is true.  If it weren't true then everyone who took up piano seriously would become a superstar pianist.  The simple fact that there are "Greats" and there are those who never sound more than mediocre no matter how many years they have been playing is proof in the pudding.

Anyone who says that just anyone can become a great pianist simply isn't being realistic.

Can anyone become a mediocre piano player?  Perhaps.  But for some of us that's not good enough.  In fact, I can still play the piano "mediocre" today. So that's not even an issue.

[pianist1976]

That was my reason for quitting.  I simply could not play what I wanted to play.  And I'm not talking about stuff way beyond my "level".   I'm talking about being able to play even simple pieces and having them sound the way that I truly wanted them to sound.  I gave it a very dedicated go for 3 years and I simply wasn't progressing to the point where I felt I should be after that much time and effort invested.

One key to achieve anything in life is persistence/perseverance. It's said that 10000 hours are needed in order to become an expert on any human activity. That's the reason why it usually takes around 10 years to start sounding the piano up to a certain level (3-4 hours a day, some 300 days a year, that takes 10 years. Of course this ratio may change depending on such factors as inborn ease, commitment, quality of teaching, using more hours a day, etc...).

Learning something is always a trial/error procedure. You already have something great: you have an idea of what sound you want. That's terrific, there's many people who, to start with, doesn't have a clear idea of the result they want. Also many people surrenders when they are at 100 ft of the goal. You didn't say how many hours have you practiced a day. Anyway, three years is a very little amount of time for "mastering" piano.

The teacher factor is also really important in my opinion. You may have inborn qualities, a terrific musical intuition... All that is great but a good teacher who knows what s/he does will always boost the learning process as you will not have to reinvent the wheel, given a minimum enthusiasm and talent of the pupil, of course.

A second issue too was that my fingers simply would not do what I wanted them to do.  And by that I mean that I could not phrase the notes the way that I wanted them to come out.  I truly felt that this was a physical barrier in my hands and fingers.  It wasn't a mental thing at all.  My hands simply would not do what I wanted them to do.  Period.

It may be a lack of basic technique. You also may need to give yourself an opportunity and continuing trying/error until you achieve the sound you want. It may take months or years, just don't give up. Three years is not enough time for piano, even to play easy pieces very well (with a perfect phrasing, tempo,  musical ideas, expression... ).

I think many people have limitations. In fact, we know that this is true.  If it weren't true then everyone who took up piano seriously would become a superstar pianist.  Anyone who says that just anyone can become a great pianist simply isn't being realistic.

I partially agree. Not everybody have the same amount of talent, nor the same commitment, nor even everybody wants to be a concert level pianist. There's many people who is happy with their vocation (lawyers, medical doctors, engineers, cooks) but they play piano as a hobby. They are not ambitious, don't dedicate many time, they may not have talent, not the need, enough to be concert pianists but it is fine. But there is also people who is passionate, who really wants it. I think that if you want it, you can achieve it. But you must be willing to pay the price. And part of the price is:

- If you think your teacher isn't teaching you enough, you must investigate and find a really good one, and been willing to pay big bucks if necessary.
- Tolerate frustration. There are many ups and downs in music. Even Horowitz confessed he also had. Never give up.
- Commitment. Nobody can do anything reasonably good at piano practicing less than 3 hours during at least 10 years.

The simple fact that there are "Greats" and there are those who never sound more than mediocre no matter how many years they have been playing is proof in the pudding.

Becoming a famous piano star involves too many factors aside how one plays. There's many people in the world who plays in a concert / world class recording level. I personally know several of them, and they ARE NOT famous at all (or maybe just a little locally). So I think they are different things: one it's achieving a great level at piano, the other one is becoming famous. They are separate paths. The first one depends at 90% of yourself, the other one not.

Can anyone become a mediocre piano player?  Perhaps.  But for some of us that's not good enough.  In fact, I can still play the piano "mediocre" today. So that's not even an issue.

I don't know you, I never listened to you but I'm reading your words. You've got the passion, you got the want, the desire. Don't give up. You may need more time. Frédéric Chopin said once "Patience is the best teacher, and time the best critic".

[m1469]

Anyone who says that just anyone can become a great pianist simply isn't being realistic.

Just for the record, that is not what I said.  I mean it in a much more relative way than even labels like "mediocre," I mean it more in relation to appropriate tasks at hand.  In fact, I had a particular individual student in mind who is seemingly one of the least physically capable that I have ever had - but there is not anything I see in her which I do not believe is ultimately mental.  She is not relaxed and has a lot of tension, which is physically fixable if it were something she could mentally sort out.   I could actually help her with that, too, but I would be surprised if we ever truly go that deeply.  She lacks a basic ability to feel her hands in a five finger position (in part because of tension), and so in the middle of an easy piece of music her hands might drift without her realizing it and suddenly there is a new level of awkwardness in the endeavor.   This "inability" could also be remedied.  I had another who was actually physically limited beyond the norm of what we think of as a pianist, but I could see within him an ability that would allow him to play actual music if he so chose.  His mental hurtles were enormous though, because of his seeming physical and learning limitations, and I imagine that just existing was an everyday challenge for him (and his family).  These are not the only students on the more extreme side that I can think of.  

What people ultimately do with an ability to focus on tasks is up to them, after a certain point in the big scheme of things.  

I'm talking about being able to play even simple pieces and having them sound the way that I truly wanted them to sound.  I gave it a very dedicated go for 3 years and I simply wasn't progressing to the point where I felt I should be after that much time and effort invested.

A second issue too was that my fingers simply would not do what I wanted them to do.  And by that I mean that I could not phrase the notes the way that I wanted them to come out.  I truly felt that this was a physical barrier in my hands and fingers.  It wasn't a mental thing at all.  My hands simply would not do what I wanted them to do.  Period.

There is actually a lot 'to' having a workable sound image, especially if you are a picky person, which it seems you are.  I would suspect it is more a matter of not being satisfied with what you are hearing, that in relation to how the unsatisfactory sound physically feels, and not truly knowing how to build a sound image (and enact it) which would have a higher level of satisfaction for you.  It involves the physical body, yes, but it's also mental, and learned through several factors.  

[faa2010]

One key to achieve anything in life is persistence/perseverance. It's said that 10000 hours are needed in order to become an expert on any human activity. That's the reason why it usually takes around 10 years to start sounding the piano up to a certain level (3-4 hours a day, some 300 days a year, that takes 10 years. Of course this ratio may change depending on such factors as inborn ease, commitment, quality of teaching, using more hours a day, etc...).

Learning something is always a trial/error procedure. You already have something great: you have an idea of what sound you want. That's terrific, there's many people who, to start with, doesn't have a clear idea of the result they want. Also many people surrenders when they are at 100 ft of the goal. You didn't say how many hours have you practiced a day. Anyway, three years is a very little amount of time for "mastering" piano.

The teacher factor is also really important in my opinion. You may have inborn qualities, a terrific musical intuition... All that is great but a good teacher who knows what s/he does will always boost the learning process as you will not have to reinvent the wheel, given a minimum enthusiasm and talent of the pupil, of course.

It may be a lack of basic technique. You also may need to give yourself an opportunity and continuing trying/error until you achieve the sound you want. It may take months or years, just don't give up. Three years is not enough time for piano, even to play easy pieces very well (with a perfect phrasing, tempo,  musical ideas, expression... ).

I partially agree. Not everybody have the same amount of talent, nor the same commitment, nor even everybody wants to be a concert level pianist. There's many people who is happy with their vocation (lawyers, medical doctors, engineers, cooks) but they play piano as a hobby. They are not ambitious, don't dedicate many time, they may not have talent, not the need, enough to be concert pianists but it is fine. But there is also people who is passionate, who really wants it. I think that if you want it, you can achieve it. But you must be willing to pay the price. And part of the price is:

- If you think your teacher isn't teaching you enough, you must investigate and find a really good one, and been willing to pay big bucks if necessary.
- Tolerate frustration. There are many ups and downs in music. Even Horowitz confessed he also had. Never give up.
- Commitment. Nobody can do anything reasonably good at piano practicing less than 3 hours during at least 10 years.

Becoming a famous piano star involves too many factors aside how one plays. There's many people in the world who plays in a concert / world class recording level. I personally know several of them, and they ARE NOT famous at all (or maybe just a little locally). So I think they are different things: one it's achieving a great level at piano, the other one is becoming famous. They are separate paths. The first one depends at 90% of yourself, the other one not.

I don't know you, I never listened to you but I'm reading your words. You've got the passion, you got the want, the desire. Don't give up. You may need more time. Frédéric Chopin said once "Patience is the best teacher, and time the best critic".

I like your comments pianist 1976, in fact, one thing is to born with the talent and another thing is the perseverance and always looking to improve, I think the second part is the one that really matters. There are people who, because of family or because innate talent, can do great things in piano and music, but if they have another goals in their minds, then it is fruitless to continue their preparation to making them piano stars. 

It may sound very romantic, but one can play the piano if one can play it with the heart.

[mystic_dreamer]

It may sound very romantic, but one can play the piano if one can play it with the heart.

That is a very romantic notion indeed.

But if someone tells you that they could not play the piano due to motor problems with their finger muscles, why insult them with romantic cliches?

Why not just accept that they have a physical problem with their finger muscles?

Life may be romantic in many ways, but it can also be quite brutal and uncaring in other ways as well.

I don't see the point in arguing with anyone who tells you that they cannot play the piano for whatever reason they give.  Why not at least allow them the respect and courtesy that they are capable of assessing their own life's situation?

[pianoplayer51]

I have a friend who cannot play the piano because she is not interested in learning. 

[mystic_dreamer]

I have a friend who cannot play the piano because she is not interested in learning. 

That's a valid reason too.   As has already been pointed out, playing a piano takes some serious time and dedication even for those who have a burning desire to play it.  So perhaps she would rather do something different with her life.

I put some serious effort into playing the piano.  It was worth it.  I can still play far better than I would have been able to do had I never given it a shot.  In fact, I still play the piano today.  I just realize now that I'm going to be limited in what I can express on a piano.

I've actually turned to playing blues and jazz instead of trying to play the classics.

I've also put effort into learning other instruments.  I currently play guitar, saxophone, trumpet, keyboard, fiddle, cello, and drums.   

The same thing was true of the fiddle.  I came to the realization that I'm never going to play Bach solos for violin or other famous classical pieces well, but I can play fiddle. So I play fiddle instead.

I'm actually far happier playing a lot of different instruments in a looser improvisational style.

I think I'm having more fun going back and forth to the different instruments that I could ever have had I dedicated myself to a single instrument.  I didn't have the skill to become great on anyone instrument.  So instead I have a lot of fun playing less challenging music on many different instruments.

[pianoplayer51]

  Good for you.   I am going to have a trial guitar lesson soon.  I cannot afford to learn more than one instrument but the music school I go to are offering a one off trial on the guitar so I booked a slot.   I thought to myself, its free so why not....

[m1469]

I don't see the point in arguing with anyone who tells you that they cannot play the piano for whatever reason they give.  Why not at least allow them the respect and courtesy that they are capable of assessing their own life's situation?

I actually believe it is an intrinsic part of my job as a teacher to see more potential in an individual than they see in themselves, to not accept arguments from them about why they cannot play, and to instead help them overcome challenges with skills which are proven to allow them to.  If a teacher accepted a student's (beliefs in) inabilities just as readily as a student does, what would be the point of having a teacher?  And what would be the point of a teacher's collection of proven skills, if they don't prove to be helpful towards students overcoming challenges?  If a path is visible to the teacher, why accept from the student that there is no path?

[Bob]

What if it was an extrinsic part instead of an intrinsic one?

[pianoplayer51]

You should not force or persuade anyone to learn the piano if they have tried and failed.   Even if you see potential, you cannot make someone do it if they feel they are not good enough.   My cousins child goes to piano lessons.   She finds it very difficult and says I cannot do this and does not want to do it.   She sees it as a chore rather than something to learn which may give her enjoyment.

Years ago my parents wanted me to learn French, I was no good at it but they insisted I carried on.  I did not lean and to this day, I cannot speak French, nor do I have any inclination to learn.  I have a friend who took piano lessons only to please his parents.   He did take a couple of grade exams to prove he could learn something, but his heart was not in it and when his teacher moved to another part of the country, they stopped the lessons much to his delight.  He is now in his 50s and has not played a piano since his teens and it has been so many years he said he would have to learn how to play with two hands again, but he now does other things and music is not high on his list.

[mystic_dreamer]

I actually believe it is an intrinsic part of my job as a teacher to see more potential in an individual than they see in themselves, to not accept arguments from them about why they cannot play, and to instead help them overcome challenges with skills which are proven to allow them to.  If a teacher accepted a student's (beliefs in) inabilities just as readily as a student does, what would be the point of having a teacher?  And what would be the point of a teacher's collection of proven skills, if they don't prove to be helpful towards students overcoming challenges?  If a path is visible to the teacher, why accept from the student that there is no path?

I'm afraid I'm not understanding what you are talking about.

Why would someone who believes that they cannot play the piano be taking piano lessons in the first place?

What kind of students are complaining to you that they cannot play the piano?

It sounds to me like you may have some hostile students who are only taking piano lessons because their parents are making them take lessons or something along those lines.

Also, if you are teaching people individually then they should be learning at their own pace.  Music is not a race.  So there's no need to be pushing them into things they aren't prepared to grasp easily.

On the other hand, if you are teaching at a school where the students are required to reach a certain level within a certain time frame then I can imagine that their complaints are often justified.  Everyone can't learn at the same pace.  For some students it might actually be the pace of the curriculum that they can't keep up with.   So when they say, "I cannot play the piano", what they might actually mean is that they can't keep up with the pace that is being demanded of them.

I've never taught music.  But I have taught math and physics.   Fortunately at a college level.  So all my students where serious about learning the subject matter.  Even so, I had students who could breeze through the material whilst others were struggling very hard to keep up.  I was also fortunate enough to have small enough class sizes where I was able to cater to the needs of individual students to some degree.

So without knowing precisely what you are talking about its hard to comment specifically on your concerns.  But if I had a student telling me that they cannot do something I would try to assess what the root of the problem was.  And there may indeed be situations where the student seriously isn't cut out for what they are attempting to learn.  Especially if they are attempting to satisfy specific deadlines or goals of a particular curriculum.

My personal problem with playing the piano had to do with not being able to play at a speed that I would like to achieve with the fluency and control of phrasing that I would like to achieve.  I gave it 3 years and saw no improvement over that time at all.  None.  Period.  I seriously doubt that there is any teacher who could have helped me improve in that particular area.  In fact, I ran into precisely the same problem playing guitar.  My fingers just won't move as fast as I would like for them to move.  And no amount of practice helps.  It's a limitation in my motor muscles of my fingers.   I'm certain of this.

Can I continue to play less challenging music?  Sure.  And I do.  And that's what I need to settle for.  But sometimes knowing your limitations can be a good thing.  It keeps you from banging your head against a wall that isn't going to move.

[m1469]

I am not talking about forcing anybody into anything.  I am talking about helping individuals to fulfill desires even when they believe they can't, providing for them a path that they do not yet understand how to provide for themselves, and helping them to become conscious of desires they hadn't yet acknowledged they even have.

[mystic_dreamer]

I am not talking about forcing anybody into anything.  I am talking about helping individuals to fulfill desires even when they believe they can't, providing for them a path that they do not yet understand how to provide for themselves, and helping them to become conscious of desires they hadn't yet acknowledged they even had.

There's certainly nothing wrong with being optimistic and encouraging.

And I also think there is a big difference between someone saying that they cannot do something because they have already given it a honest shot, versus students who simply say that they cannot do something merely because they haven't yet learned how to do it or have even tried.

I got to a point where my fingers simply wouldn't do what I was asking them to do.  And I gave it 3 years of serious daily practice.  I also looked up many different methods for overcoming this particular problem.  It was futile.

I finally concluded that my fingers just aren't up to the task. I believe that I'm right. I don't believe that there is any teacher who could just tell me something that will magically change the ability of my fingers.

Now I will confess that I started piano as a mature adult, and that may very well be the problem right there.  Had I started this when I was younger I may not have had the problems I have today.

I've even heard stories of great pianists who played fantastic and have had great careers and have even been quite famous, but in their latter years they could no longer play the pieces they used to be able to play because their motor muscles in their hands simply won't keep up anymore.  Or perhaps arthritis had set in.  There is no magical information that is going to help them at that point.   Maybe some magical medicine, but certainly no piano teacher is going to cure this problem.

What do you say to a great pianist who says, "I cannot play piano anymore"?

Do you say, "You just need to take lessons from me."  Or, "Your heart just isn't in it anymore."?

I don't think that's going to cut it.

There do exist physical reasons why some people may not be able to play at the level they would like to play at.  And this could be true for some young people as well.

I mean, it's great to be encouraging.  But I think you need to be careful that you don't take it to the point of actually insulting people who have already given it their best shot.

~~~~~

What I would suggest is that when someone says, "I cannot play the piano", you could simply ask them what it was they were having difficulty with.  And when they explain the problem they were having you could say, "Well I have experience with how to deal with that particular issue, if you'd like to try my methods I would be very happy to see if I can help you with it."

Or something along those lines.

If they decline, then let it be.

If they accept, then you're all set to go.

[m1469]

There's certainly nothing wrong with being optimistic and encouraging.

Can't say I know what you're talking about  

I don't believe that there is any teacher who could just tell me something that will magically change the ability of my fingers.

That is basically completely true for anybody at absolutely any point in the game.

What do you say to a great pianist who says, "I cannot play piano anymore"?

"Could we meet for coffee?" and I'd listen, with an accepting heart and with ears wide open.

Mystic, my suggestion to you for your next post here, is to see if you could manage to pack in a few more passive aggressive insults, intellectual "labyrinths," as well as cliched prejudices.  

[outin]

I got to a point where my fingers simply wouldn't do what I was asking them to do.  And I gave it 3 years of serious daily practice.  I also looked up many different methods for overcoming this particular problem.  It was futile.

Unlike you I am still going to give it a try. I've also worked daily for almost 3 years and only during the last 2 months or so have I been able to play considerably faster. Several times have I thought that I should just settle for playing slowly (and speed never was my first priority anyway) but considering the improvements during the last few months I will reconsider. Don't think I could have done it without my teacher, because I would not have known how to improve my basic technique if it wasn't for her. I still don't really know what has happened to my fingers, definitely not any special "method" for speeding up. Maybe it just is about time spent with the piano. I still canNOT play the piano, but I can play it a little better than before

[pianoplayer51]

There's certainly nothing wrong with being optimistic and encouraging.

And I also think there is a big difference between someone saying that they cannot do something because they have already given it a honest shot, versus students who simply say that they cannot do something merely because they haven't yet learned how to do it or have even tried.

I got to a point where my fingers simply wouldn't do what I was asking them to do.  And I gave it 3 years of serious daily practice.  I also looked up many different methods for overcoming this particular problem.  It was futile.

I finally concluded that my fingers just aren't up to the task. I believe that I'm right. I don't believe that there is any teacher who could just tell me something that will magically change the ability of my fingers.

Now I will confess that I started piano as a mature adult, and that may very well be the problem right there.  Had I started this when I was younger I may not have had the problems I have today.

I've even heard stories of great pianists who played fantastic and have had great careers and have even been quite famous, but in their latter years they could no longer play the pieces they used to be able to play because their motor muscles in their hands simply won't keep up anymore.  Or perhaps arthritis had set in.  There is no magical information that is going to help them at that point.   Maybe some magical medicine, but certainly no piano teacher is going to cure this problem.

What do you say to a great pianist who says, "I cannot play piano anymore"?

Do you say, "You just need to take lessons from me."  Or, "Your heart just isn't in it anymore."?

I don't think that's going to cut it.

There do exist physical reasons why some people may not be able to play at the level they would like to play at.  And this could be true for some young people as well.

I mean, it's great to be encouraging.  But I think you need to be careful that you don't take it to the point of actually insulting people who have already given it their best shot.

~~~~~

What I would suggest is that when someone says, "I cannot play the piano", you could simply ask them what it was they were having difficulty with.  And when they explain the problem they were having you could say, "Well I have experience with how to deal with that particular issue, if you'd like to try my methods I would be very happy to see if I can help you with it."

Or something along those lines.

If they decline, then let it be.

If they accept, then you're all set to go.

I believe anyone can learn to make their fingers do what they are meant to do on a piano.  I started as a mature student and I can do it so how is it you cannot?.  You need to have a lot of patience which obviously you do not have and are all to ready to give up.

Let me ask you a question.   What made you want to learn?   Do you have a genuine interest in the instrument?

[pianoplayer51]

You know, there is one professional pianist I listen a lot to and this pianist plays sharp clear runs and trills.   I do not play sharp clear trills and have not started on runs but someone who plays trills so clearly, where you can hear each note is a joy to listen to.   You can listen and learn from the Greats and if you lower your expectations a bit, you will get far more joy out of piano playing

[mystic_dreamer]

I believe anyone can learn to make their fingers do what they are meant to do on a piano. 

Sounds pretty naive to me.  I live in a world were some people have real limitations. I think it would be great if that were not so.

I started as a mature student and I can do it so how is it you cannot?. 

Has it ever occurred to you that I might have a physical limitation that you do not have?

You need to have a lot of patience which obviously you do not have and are all to ready to give up.

Don't preach to me about patience.  I have endless patience.  I also wouldn't say that I "gave up".  I personally feel that to even suggest such a thing is insulting.  I still play piano today.  I just realize that I will never active my original ambitions. I don't see anything wrong with being practical and realistic.

Let me ask you a question.   What made you want to learn?   Do you have a genuine interest in the instrument?

Pure desire.  In fact, I'm not even concerned about ever performing in public.  My desire to play the piano was purely my own desire.

You ask if I have a genuine interest in the instrument.  I currently own 5 pianos.  They are all wooden acoustical uprights.  I not only play them but I repair, rebuild, and tune them as well.

I also now have 3 electronic keyboards as well.  In fact, my home looks like a music store.  The pianos are only a small part of the musical instruments I own.

I can't believe that people are surprised that someone might not be able to play a piano to a level that they would like to achieve.  I'm sure there are thousands of piano players who have had to settle for mediocre careers simply because they didn't have what it takes to truly play a piano well.

In fact, if that level of playing was available to everyone, then "Great" piano players wouldn't be much to speak of since anyone can do it.

When someone says they can't play piano what they probably mean is that they realize that they are never going to achieve the kind of results that they would like to achieve.  I doubt very much that they mean that they can't play anything at all.

You know, there is one professional pianist I listen a lot to and this pianist plays sharp clear runs and trills.   I do not play sharp clear trills and have not started on runs but someone who plays trills so clearly, where you can hear each note is a joy to listen to.   You can listen and learn from the Greats and if you lower your expectations a bit, you will get far more joy out of piano playing

I do get enjoyment out of what I am able to play.  I just know that I will never achieve the results that I originally dreamed of when I started learning the instrument.

I might add also, that I found the same thing to be true on violin.  Now people say two things about the violin.  One is that a person needs to start very young.   I obviously don't have that option at this point in my life.  They other thing they say is that it takes years to become a great violinist.  However, I think players like Hilary Hahn has proven the latter wrong.  She has been playing great violin solos quite young.

Ironically Hilary was the reason I quit the violin (although like piano I still play violin too).  But what I mean is that I gave up on trying to play the Bach Partitas and Sonatas.  Ironically Hilary is the reason I no longer try.

I think this is in interesting story so bear with me:

When I listened to the Great violinists playing the Bach Partitas and Sonatas I felt that there was something missing, and I had a certain way that I wanted to play them.   All I needed to do now is get it out on the instrument since I could already hear it in my head.  So I knew what I wanted to play, but I couldn't put it out on the instrument.  None the less I was determined to try.  And so I was practicing the Back partitas and sonatas.   And of course, I had a very long way to go to get it to sound like what I had in my head. 

But then I found a CD by Hilary Hahn playing the Bach partitas and sonatas.  And when I heard her play I said, "That's it!".  That is how they should be played.  That is the sound I was looking for myself.

So then I thought, why bother now?  Hilary already did it for me.

So I lowered my aim and now I play fiddle music and blues on the violin.  Much easier.