How to achieve this technique :O?

[hardy_practice]

Indeed, performing a program is rather a mental process, rather than a physical task. In fact, technique (at least most of its aspects) is in ones head, rather than hands.

Best, M 

A pleasure to have you in the topic - I know you know what you're talking about and I agree with you.  Talk to any endurance athlete - won't they say mind is the ultimate obstacle?

[marik1]

Talk to any endurance athlete - won't they say mind is the ultimate obstacle?

Yes, but still there are a lot of differences dictated by the final goals: a musical image vs. maximum performance in sport. As such the methods of achieving those goals are different and in sport there is much more of the "physical training" element, while in piano performance it is minimal (if any).

Some pianists (notably Pletnev, who often learns new pieces in the flight to the recitals and brings on stage even without prior trying on the instrument) don't need to practice at all and always be in the top shape (ironically, our esteemed "expert" deems Pletnev as somebody, who has unacceptable technique). That would be impossible with endurance athletes.

Starts at 0:24:

Best, M

[nyiregyhazi]

A pleasure to have you in the topic - I know you know what you're talking about and I agree with you.  Talk to any endurance athlete - won't they say mind is the ultimate obstacle?

Try running a marathon with only mental preparation. The mind is indeed the ultimate obstacle - when the body has already been properly trained. It's a very different issue to pianism. The equivalent would be of pianists learning to bear the pain when having to carry on pushing while it hurts (both in training and in final execution). This could not be more disparate from good use of the mind in pianism.

[hardy_practice]

Yes, but still there are a lot of differences dictated by the final goals: a musical image vs. maximum performance in sport. As such the methods of achieving those goals are different and in sport there is much more of the "physical training" element, while in piano performance it is minimal (if any).

There I must disagree.  How many hours physical training does a pianist require?  To meet the endurance of a full recital I'd put it at Chopin's three hours as a minimum.  If it could be done in an arm chair wouldn't we be doing that?

[gyzzzmo]

There I must disagree.  How many hours physical training does a pianist require?  To meet the endurance of a full recital I'd put it at Chopin's three hours as a minimum.  If it could be done in an arm chair wouldn't we be doing that?

The 'training' we do by playing the piano is mainly for the development of the brain tissue and the rest of the nerve system. The 'training' of the muscles and effective energy transit system is for us pianists only a minor part, unlike performing in sports.

That is why it is for accomplished pianists mainly a mental preparation to get a recital right, because the physical part is already present and only minor compared to getting it musically right.

Btw, Marik didnt mean that pianists like Pletnev didnt practise at all. They make enough playing hours a day, its just that they dont have to spend a lot of time on the pieces they are going to play on those perticular recitals.
(At least that is what i know, and i hope you mean Marik!)

Gyzzzmo

[marik1]

There I must disagree.  How many hours physical training does a pianist require?  To meet the endurance of a full recital I'd put it at Chopin's three hours as a minimum.  If it could be done in an arm chair wouldn't we be doing that?

Hard to say, as it is very individual--some need 8 hours, some... none. On top of that, it is almost impossible to say or separate how much one spends at the piano for "physical training" and how much for "mental work". All I can say that for "physical" (which has nothing to do with muscles training, so probably one could rather call it "mental") I spend about 20 min a day--that's how long it takes me to maintain the "feel" of the key bed, return the sensitivity in finger tips, and "warm up" the touch--mostly playing slowly and lightly, rather than maintaining "strength and endurance" (which BTW, I never do). Also, that's how much I practice the day of the recital (only quick warm up right before going on stage).
  
Best, M

[faulty_damper]

There I must disagree.  How many hours physical training does a pianist require?  To meet the endurance of a full recital I'd put it at Chopin's three hours as a minimum.  If it could be done in an arm chair wouldn't we be doing that?

When I was in music school, I practiced about an hour per day.  My forearm muscles were very large.  Now, I can practice up to several hours per day and my forearm muscles are much smaller.  The difference is in coordinating the whole body so that it does not over-rely on isolated muscle groups.  If piano students just learned to do this from the beginning, there wouldn't be so many issues with technique even amongst the most well-known of pianists and it wouldn't require so many hours of practice to build endurance and stamina.  Practice would still require hundreds of repetitions to ingrain movements, but it wouldn't be spent building endurance and stamina or muscles.

The Tauman video shows many examples of pianists over-relying on their fingers and using force.  This over-reliance requires endless hours of practice.  Then you see Taubman show how to do a simple 5-note scale and her movements involve the entire arm/wrist/hand and it looks natural.  (That's exactly how I play, btw.)  That movement combination is very rare amongst pianists.  She makes more movements than she describes, but the most important that is never discussed, not even by Golandsky, is the wrist moving higher as the forearm rotates.  (This is part of the reason why my forearms are no longer so large because it drastically minimizes finger movement.)  It's visible in the video but you may have missed it since she doesn't mention it.

[marik1]

Btw, Marik didnt mean that pianists like Pletnev didnt practise at all. They make enough playing hours a day, its just that they dont have to spend a lot of time on the pieces they are going to play on those perticular recitals.
(At least that is what i know, and i hope you mean Marik!)

Actually, in case of Pletnev, it is rather 'he works a lot, but he does not need to spend his time at the piano'. He just practices sitting in a chair. The connection between his hands and mind are amazing...

I know another pianist like that--V. Feltsman (who BTW, was studying with the same teachers as Pletnev). Once I was visiting him and he asked me: "Tomorrow I am going on a tour and have a few programs, so could you please let me an hour (!!!) to get prepared". I asked him what are the programs. His answer was Concerti: Beethoven No.4, Rachmaninov No.3, Prokofiev No.2, plus 2 full solo recitals, including Chopin 4 Ballades, etc. In that hour he touched the piano probably for 10-15 min total.

Best, M  

[nyiregyhazi]

When I was in music school, I practiced about an hour per day.  My forearm muscles were very large.  Now, I can practice up to several hours per day and my forearm muscles are much smaller.  The difference is in coordinating the whole body so that it does not over-rely on isolated muscle groups.  If piano students just learned to do this from the beginning, there wouldn't be so many issues with technique even amongst the most well-known of pianists and it wouldn't require so many hours of practice to build endurance and stamina.  Practice would still require hundreds of repetitions to ingrain movements, but it wouldn't be spent building endurance and stamina or muscles.

The Tauman video shows many examples of pianists over-relying on their fingers and using force.  This over-reliance requires endless hours of practice.  Then you see Taubman show how to do a simple 5-note scale and her movements involve the entire arm/wrist/hand and it looks natural.  (That's exactly how I play, btw.)  That movement combination is very rare amongst pianists.  She makes more movements than she describes, but the most important that is never discussed, not even by Golandsky, is the wrist moving higher as the forearm rotates.  (This is part of the reason why my forearms are no longer so large because it drastically minimizes finger movement.)  It's visible in the video but you may have missed it since she doesn't mention it.

Here's a golandsky student successfully minimising finger movement. All arm, no finger equals no ease or fine control

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Do9-0XayZGx4&sa=U&ei=eQZcU7f4EMmXPYXhgOgP&ved=0CAsQtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNERsPeFdcsaA1fEGNr_9_cYMRX7bAc


Note just how much unnecessary force there is when fingers don't generate free and easy movement. Separate arm pressures are more effortful than smoothly drifting arm from which fingers move out.

[hardy_practice]

Hard to say, as it is very individual--some need 8 hours, some... none. On top of that, it is almost impossible to say or separate how much one spends at the piano for "physical training" and how much for "mental work". All I can say that for "physical" (which has nothing to do with muscles training, so probably one could rather call it "mental") I spend about 20 min a day--that's how long it takes me to maintain the "feel" of the key bed, return the sensitivity in finger tips, and "warm up" the touch--mostly playing slowly and lightly, rather than maintaining "strength and endurance" (which BTW, I never do). Also, that's how much I practice the day of the recital (only quick warm up right before going on stage).
  
Best, M

I think you're saying you physically practice hours most days?

Gyzzzmo are you going to answer this:

There's some weird logic that escapes me here.  'Anaerobic vs aerobic metabolism' appears to be the answer to how marathon runners and pianists 'handle a repetition' without 'much muscle action'.  That's not been explained.

[pianoman53]

(That's exactly how I play, btw.)

So why can't you spend 10 minutes of your life, to show us a perfect c major scale? Maybe just the first page of op 10 no 1 by Chopin.

[marik1]

I think you're saying you physically practice hours most days?

Again, it is very different to practice for "training endurance" and to practice for refining and perfecting musical image (or just learn text of new pieces). If you are asking me about physically sitting at the piano and playing, then I spend no more than 1.5-2 hours a day before concerts, mostly refining the interpretation, working on sound, shape of phrasing, connection between my mind and hands, etc. If you are asking about spending time for training endurance (which is essential for athletes), then I spend zero time. Between the concerts I whether don't practice at all, or practice only if I need to learn new pieces.

Best, M

[hardy_practice]

Thanks.  I'd think that really is a minimum or you lose your form.  It's why Chopin was moaning from Scotland about his 'unpracticed' state.  No need to go into why you lose your form - the rest is fine from an armchair.

[gyzzzmo]

There's some weird logic that escapes me here.  'Anaerobic vs aerobic metabolism' appears to be the answer to how marathon runners and pianists 'handle a repetition' without 'much muscle action'.  That's not been explained.

I did not say that, so i didnt feel like explaining it. I said 'Anaerobic vs aerobic metabolism' to hint you that i dont have to ask people how the physiology of muscle development works. Anaerobic and aerobic metabolism is one of that basics that determine how muscles develop, and why pianists/marathon runners develop certain type of muscles, and sprinters/piano throwers develop other type of muscles.

Now if you're going to question again, make sure its a good one, i dont mind putting my effort into trying to explain it then, thats why i'm on a forum after all. But just make sure you're seriously considering those explanations too and giving it some proper thought.

[marik1]

Here's a golandsky student successfully minimising finger movement. All arm, no finger equals no ease or fine control

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Do9-0XayZGx4&sa=U&ei=eQZcU7f4EMmXPYXhgOgP&ved=0CAsQtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNERsPeFdcsaA1fEGNr_9_cYMRX7bAc

Oh boy! There is a good reason out of school of Taubman, who taught "right" technique I don't know a single pianist of stature, or just a pianist to win a major competition. Ironically, according to our "expert", winners of Tchaikowsky, Chopin, Queen Elizabeth, Cliburn competitions, as well as major label artists have horrible and not worthy technique... Go figure...

Best, M

[hardy_practice]

Anaerobic and aerobic metabolism is one of that basics that determine how muscles develop, and why pianists/marathon runners develop certain type of muscles, and sprinters/piano throwers develop other type of muscles.

That's fine if pianists don't need to sprint.  I can't help thinking it's not all steady as she goes though - even marathon runners need to save up for that last sprint.  Anaerobic vs aerobic metabolism is about pacing - surely not something the performer is in charge of? and there are some pretty active scores out there!

Anyway, back to your original point that marathon runners are skinny because they have little muscle development (if I got that right), surely it's not muscle they're missing but fat?  Their physique will be very different from a muscle builder but they're still going to be well developed where it's required.

[mjames]

Thanks.  I'd think that really is a minimum or you lose your form.  It's why Chopin was moaning from Scotland about his 'unpracticed' state.  No need to go into why you lose your form - the rest is fine from an armchair.

If I remember correctly Chopin meant, "no more than 3 hours a day" not "a minimum of 3 hours a day". I think the former makes much more sense; I honestly can't fathom how some people can spend up to 8 hours a day playing piano productively.

(I find it hard to believe that they actually do)

[gyzzzmo]

That's fine if pianists don't need to sprint.  I can't help thinking it's not all steady as she goes though - even marathon runners need to save up for that last sprint.  Anaerobic vs aerobic metabolism is about pacing - surely not something the performer is in charge of? and there are some pretty active scores out there!

Anyway, back to your original point that marathon runners are skinny because they have little muscle development (if I got that right), surely it's not muscle they're missing but fat?  Their physique will be very different from a muscle builder but they're still going to be well developed where it's required.

No you dont have it right, and it has nothing to do with fat. If you want to discuss something, at least take the effort to read what anaerobic and aerobic metabolism means. Use wikipedia or whatever. At least you made very clear now that you have no idea what you're talking about, and that there's also no point discussing it with you.

Good night

[cabbynum]

If I remember correctly Chopin meant, "no more than 3 hours a day" not "a minimum of 3 hours a day". I think the former makes much more sense; I honestly can't fathom how some people can spend up to 8 hours a day playing piano productively.

(I find it hard to believe that they actually do)

I spend many many many hours a day at the piano. And you're right it's not all productive. But I love playing so much that when I take a break I simply whip out a piece I've always wanted to play and read through it then go back to my serious repertoire.
Though I do suffer from some pretty heavy OCD, so when I get obsessed with something I have no idea how much time goes by.
I couldn't sleep last night and went to the piano around 2am to try and distract myself for a bit then try sleeping again.
I whipped out the wanderer fantasy as I just started it. Well I realized I should stop when the sun started to come up haha! So it is possible to have (in this case) 4 ish hours of really solid practice. I've done more in the past and done much less. What I've learned with myself though is of I am practicing before leaving for work or to go to an event then I must set an alarm. Haha

[kevin69]

from https://www.forte-piano-pianissimo.com/ChopintheTeacher.html (which also has the bibliography to back up the quotes):


In his preface of his piano treatise, Johan Nepomuk Hummel (1778- 1837) wrote:

Many pianists, already advanced, believe that it is necessary to play at least six to seven hours a day in order to achieve their goal; they are in error: I am able to assure them that a regular, daily, attentive study of at most three hours, is sufficient for this purpose; any practice beyond this, damps the spirits, produces a mechanical, rather than an expressive and impassioned style of playing, and is generally disadvantageous to the performer, inasmuch as when compelled to play aside this incessant exercise, if called upon to play any piece on a sudden, he cannot regain his usual powers of execution without having some days previous practice.

According to one of Chopin’s student Madame Dubois, it seems that Chopin agreed with Hummel. For Delfina, another of his students, Chopin wrote: “Once again I repeat – don’t play more than two hours a day; that is quite enough during the summer.” For von Timm Chopin recommended “not practicing too long, but to reading, looking at beautiful art works, or taking walks as periods of rest from practice.” Chopin did not believe that six or eight hour practice periods “signified diligence. He considered it mechanical, unintelligent and useless labor. He insisted upon complete concentration, alertness, and attentiveness as the utmost requirements for good practicing.”

[m1469]

He insisted upon complete concentration, alertness, and attentiveness as the utmost requirements for good practicing.

Specifics (would) help.

[nyiregyhazi]

That's fine if pianists don't need to sprint.  I can't help thinking it's not all steady as she goes though - even marathon runners need to save up for that last sprint.  Anaerobic vs aerobic metabolism is about pacing - surely not something the performer is in charge of? and there are some pretty active scores out there!

Anyway, back to your original point that marathon runners are skinny because they have little muscle development (if I got that right), surely it's not muscle they're missing but fat?  Their physique will be very different from a muscle builder but they're still going to be well developed where it's required.

You're missing the point. Different types and sizes of muscle develop from cardio vs strength work. Also, plenty of bodybuilders have low fat. Not all body builders have the Jeff Capes look these days. You've made a fallacious polarisation between variables that can coexist. It would be foolish indeed to think that lower fat is what distinguishes Mo Farah from Arnie and it really shouldn't take much self-scrutiny to expose such a non-starter of an argument.

[kevin69]

You're missing the point. Different types and sizes of muscle develop from cardio vs strength work. Also, plenty of bodybuilders have low fat. Not all body builders have the Jeff Capes look these days. You've made a fallacious polarisation between variables that can coexist. It would be foolish indeed to think that lower fat is what distinguishes Mo Farah from Arnie and it really shouldn't take much self-scrutiny to expose such a non-starter of an argument.

Yes, distance runners and road cyclists need consistent power outputs and high power/weight ratios and so tend to be very lean. Sprinters, boxers, and weight lifters need strength instead, and so are more bulky.

I'm fairly sure this has very little to do with playing a piano though.

[hardy_practice]

Yes, distance runners and road cyclists need consistent power outputs and high power/weight ratios and so tend to be very lean. Sprinters, boxers, and weight lifters need strength instead, and so are more bulky.

I'm fairly sure this has very little to do with playing a piano though.

Agreed.

[gyzzzmo]

I'm fairly sure this has very little to do with playing a piano though.

Why not, pianists dont have muscles to work with?

[kevin69]

Why not, pianists dont have muscles to work with?

I don't think that either power output or strength is a limiting factor in piano playing.
It requires very little force to press a key (approx. 0.5N).
Controlling your movements accurately is, of course, important, but strength and power don't figure in this much.

I'm using muscles to type this, but my muscles are not a limiting factor of the intelligence of this post.

Are you saying that a lack of strength, power or stamina prevents you playing the piano better?

[outin]

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Do9-0XayZGx4&sa=U&ei=eQZcU7f4EMmXPYXhgOgP&ved=0CAsQtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNERsPeFdcsaA1fEGNr_9_cYMRX7bAc

Interesting...to my less experienced eye his playing looks somehow laborous when I compare to some other pianists (and doesn't quite sound the way I'd like either). I am beginning to understand why my present teacher forced me to work the fingers. It seemed laborous and tense for quite a while and I wondered if it was the reason for my RSI problems, but now it feels natural and not really straining at all. My forearms, shoulders and wrists were tense before because I didn't know HOW to work the fingers without building up tension. I couldn't explain exactly how I am doing it, just that I am better with it. I still sometimes "forget" to employ the fingers properly and wonder why playing feels so difficult

[gyzzzmo]

I don't think that either power output or strength is a limiting factor in piano playing.
It requires very little force to press a key (approx. 0.5N).
Controlling your movements accurately is, of course, important, but strength and power don't figure in this much.

I'm using muscles to type this, but my muscles are not a limiting factor of the intelligence of this post.

Are you saying that a lack of strength, power or stamina prevents you playing the piano better?

Strength or power, no. But some stamina is required to be able to play keep control of some pieces yes. The muscles controlling the fingers adapt themselves to this type of effort quite similar as the muscles of a marathon runner do. What i was trying to explain hardy_practise is that the muscles arent getting bigger, instead the aerobic metabolism gets more efficient, hence the marathon runner anology wich still seems way too complicated for him.

[hardy_practice]

To equate 'the muscles controlling the fingers' with a marathon runner is not only specious but, considering the complexity of the playing mechanism, simplistic in the extreme.   That this thread has deteriorated into a debate on the relative size of performer's flexor muscles, as if that can be determined from a vid!, is the height of craziness.

[dima_76557]

How to achieve this technique :O?

It is unlikely that you will get a reply to that question here. I suggest doing a search on YouTube by "Valentina Lisitsa - Interview". For example, there is an interview in which she shows on a table top how she developed her technique (from 3:40 on). Her style of playing has little to do with strength and power (she's not from that "school"), but more with extreme flexibility and elasticity. She lifts the fingers high like racing horses lift their legs:

P.S.: I hope this does not lead to a new hopeless and endless "discussion" about how good or how bad such an approach is. Although many pianists don't move their fingers that way, it works for her, and it works for some others too.

[hardy_practice]

Wow!  14 hours a day and reading a book at the same time.  She's a re-incarnation of Lizst!

[nyiregyhazi]

I don't think that either power output or strength is a limiting factor in piano playing.
It requires very little force to press a key (approx. 0.5N).
Controlling your movements accurately is, of course, important, but strength and power don't figure in this much.

I'm using muscles to type this, but my muscles are not a limiting factor of the intelligence of this post.

Are you saying that a lack of strength, power or stamina prevents you playing the piano better?

There's a common misunderstanding regarding that figure. It refers to the threshold where either no sound is produced yet or the bare minimum tone is just starting. That's like saying it takes very little force to throw a shot-putt a cm. When you need to accelerate the hammer enough for even a gentle mp, the figure is out the window. For a really big sound it can require genuinely large forces.

[kevin69]

There's a common misunderstanding regarding that figure. It refers to the threshold where either no sound is produced yet or the bare minimum tone is just starting. That's like saying it takes very little force to throw a shot-putt a cm. When you need to accelerate the hammer enough for even a gentle mp, the figure is out the window. For a really big sound it can require genuinely large forces.

This paper suggests that amateur players use more force for longer than expert  players:
https://www.immm.hmtm-hannover.de/fileadmin/www.immm/Publikationen/Parlitz_et_al._1998.pdf
The exercises involve keeping some fingers static while others move (not too dissimilar to the abc excercises).
Its interesting that the biggests forces are in the static fingers of the amateurs (20N or so) with forces of about 6N for the experts playing forte (65dBa). There is almost no force in the static fingers of the experts.

6N is an order of magnitude greater than .5N, but the forces measured here are still fairly modest in the expert group, and do suggest that tension and large forces in the fingers are a sign of poor technique.

[shabbatshalom]

This issue of strength is silly once you go over to a piano and realize how little resistance a key has. Mental endurance is needed, but physically piano playing is easy. With just the finger one can make a wide variety of sounds by varying its speed. The tricky part is that it must be natural, and natural movement doesn't come by thinking about how to move (try walking).

[nyiregyhazi]

This paper suggests that amateur players use more force for longer than expert  players:
https://www.immm.hmtm-hannover.de/fileadmin/www.immm/Publikationen/Parlitz_et_al._1998.pdf
The exercises involve keeping some fingers static while others move (not too dissimilar to the abc excercises).
Its interesting that the biggests forces are in the static fingers of the amateurs (20N or so) with forces of about 6N for the experts playing forte (65dBa). There is almost no force in the static fingers of the experts.

6N is an order of magnitude greater than .5N, but the forces measured here are still fairly modest in the expert group, and do suggest that tension and large forces in the fingers are a sign of poor technique.

Of course, efficiency is always good but to generate the forces involved does require trained muscles. Also, I don't doubt the data but it's easy to misinterpret it. A good professional makes room for the run off after a strike in a way that means the continuation of action makes room and freedom rather than crushes down. An amateur usually crushes and then relaxes sharply. This either makes everything droop down or stiffen into a held position. You see this on the film I linked of a student. The knuckles never connect properly in a sustainable way. Relaxing the wrong muscles too much either means the arm has to work very hard due to absence of support or that it rests on a straining hand. Healthy continuation of activity that stands up the knuckles is the root to freedom and ease. See rubinstein's long sustainable quality of contact and compare to the choppy prodigy in the film. Good pianists don't achieve their results through flaccid relaxation after the strike. Rather, the right quality of ongoing activity earns the chance to be comfortable and without big pressure. Precision of maintained finger action is what removes the need to press with the arm. The pressure is largely a symptom rather than the underlying problem and it's not one you can fix merely by trying to subtract efforts , unless the hand does its positive job properly. The data is correct, but gives the opposite impression about what is really needed to improve, unless you look beneath the surface. It's when a finger does not precisely ground a key in a way that connects to the knuckle that emergency tensions come in to keep it down.

[shabbatshalom]

Piano playing is not about force. It's about speed.

[brogers70]

Piano playing is not about force. It's about speed.

F = m*a.

[pianoman53]

Individuality and musicality has clearly nothing to do with piano playing, so I'm very happy that you have this debate. I can't imagine how it could end in any other way than with great triumph!

[tenklavir]

I've been lurking here a long time, and with my first post I will say that to me there are now three certainties in this world: death, taxes, and faulty_damper not posting a 30 second video of himself (or linking a youtube vid) that shows his wonderful and virtuosic technique while everyone else sucks.

[faulty_damper]

I've been lurking here a long time, and with my first post I will say that to me there are now three certainties in this world: death, taxes, and faulty_damper not posting a 30 second video of himself (or linking a youtube vid) that shows his wonderful and virtuosic technique while everyone else sucks.

And I may never post a video on this forum, that's for certain! 
I'm not a performer and I also think I'm a terrible at it.  I'm also not a show off and would never do it for public kudos.

Really, though, all I'm saying is to try what I suggest even though I know for certain that most people never even do that.  It takes too much effort to do something different than what they're used to.  It's called being mentally lazy which is why most people never seek out an easier alternative when they find one that works reasonably well.  Reasonably well isn't perfect or effortless.

[future_maestro]

easy, put the pedal down and make sure everything is blurred. Make sure your wrists are all droopy and sh*t and put rubato everywhere.

THUMBS UP!!!

[awesom_o]

Individuality and musicality has clearly nothing to do with piano playing

?

[pianoman53]

?

Sarcasm. But clearly you get it!

[awesom_o]

Although I'm not the biggest fan of Lisitsa's interpretations in general, I have always greatly admired this particular performance of hers:

I don't like the way her technique sounds in the music of Chopin.  I find her Rachmaninoff a bit hit and miss, but in all honesty I've never heard a version of that Etude-Tableaux that surpasses hers in terms of excitement and colour. Very clear, electric sound, and effective musical choices for that work.

[lateromantic]

Haha I figured. But it's probably for the best. The sheer beauty produced by his physically correct motions and lack of "co-contraction" would probably kill us all.

That's assuming, of course, that we weren't so turned off by his muscleless forearms that we could no longer appreciate the beauty of the motions.

[nyiregyhazi]

And I may never post a video on this forum, that's for certain! 
I'm not a performer and I also think I'm a terrible at it.  I'm also not a show off and would never do it for public kudos.

This isn't exactly in line with numerous other boastful claims. What's with the sudden humility?

[cabbynum]

This isn't exactly in line with numerous other boastful claims. What's with the sudden humility?

Just stop fueling him.

[jollisg]

You're making a false analogy. Piano playing is not about how far you can kick or throw the piano - it's not about finger strengthening.  Good technique is effortless, not requiring such muscle-building workouts.  However, the overwhelming majority of pianists believe that playing piano is like training for an Olympic event; the more the muscles burn and the more it hurts, the better the pianist becomes.  This is simply not the case.

The finger muscles are attached  in the elbow... So they are in the forearm as well.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Look faulty...

Her technique is fine.  Obviously she can play the piece well so there's no issue here.

It doesn't matter how you do it as long as you can get the job done.

[awesom_o]

I believe Mr Damper has been banished to PW....  as you can see, he managed to stir up the old pot over there pretty quickly:

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2303886/Play_chopin_%C3%A9tude_op_10_no_1_a.html#Post2303886

I doubt he'll last very long with the moderators there.