Help Unfolding my first Bach Fugue

[k589]

Hi Pianostreet,

I was wondering if anyone here had any editions of music they could help me out with, or ways by which to understand hands / fingerings in a fugue. I'm currently working on Bach's fugue in F minor from the WTC. #1, and I just wish I could have a better way of going through and learning it; it's hard to practice with just one hand, because I don't know if a hand should be playing which line or the other.

What's the secret? Just struggle through it?

[j_menz]

This is a four part fugue, so not really a good first fugue. I'd recommend starting with a three voice one.

You should also do several two part inventions, and a few three part ones first.  That'll help with the idea of fingering contrapuntal pieces.

To play a fugue such as this, the idea is to have ten fingers, not two sets of five. Voices move between the hands, and need to do so seamlessly.

You should also be aware that you can change fingers on held notes (not playing them again, just moving which finger is holding it down). Those longer held notes also influence which other fingers are convenient to use for the remaining parts.

There are several editions of this on IMSLP, some of them may have some fingering written in - you should check and see what you find to be useful.

You may also find this analysis useful (scroll down past the Prelude bit if you are only interested in the Fugue).

Step one is to work out fingerings, then practice each voice separately - using the fingers you worked out for the whole thing, then in various combinations of voices.  The analysis I linked will show you where the various voices lie and how they work.

[k589]

@j_menz: Thanks so much for your post! That site is awesome and I love reading about the musical architecture in the piece as well as playing it itself.

I'll invest more time into distinguishing the voices, and make sure to have the fingerings and identity of flow through the fugue solid.

[j_menz]

You may also like to take advantage of the Audition Room part of the forum to post your progress periodically and get valuable feedback.

[k589]

Thanks, I'll probably do that! Also, I found an edition online that has fingerings all in it with multiple permutations; it's awesome. I'm feeling great about getting it down now.

[raindropshome]

J_Menz

Would you have the analysis of WTC BK1 B flat major? or better yet, analysis for all pieces? I'm tackling this fugue and it is my first fugue too. Currently at the point of getting all the fingering down and play smoothly with subjects standing out. At any given moment I can hear one of the voices and the echoing of the other two (and they are a little blurry right now). I can't hear all three voices all the time. IS this what it's suppose to be?

Also, when people talk about greatest satisfaction is to play fugue, what about it so satisfying? All I can feel now is that it's a different type of music, I'm not carried away. What's wrong?

Thanks

[j_menz]

J_Menz

Would you have the analysis of WTC BK1 B flat major? or better yet, analysis for all pieces?

They're not my analyses, but the whole WTC can be found here.

I'm tackling this fugue and it is my first fugue too. Currently at the point of getting all the fingering down and play smoothly with subjects standing out. At any given moment I can hear one of the voices and the echoing of the other two (and they are a little blurry right now). I can't hear all three voices all the time. IS this what it's suppose to be?

For the time being, yes. You will in time be able to hear them all, but it will come when it comes. Until then, just keep trying to listen for them.

Also, when people talk about greatest satisfaction is to play fugue, what about it so satisfying? All I can feel now is that it's a different type of music, I'm not carried away. What's wrong?

Thanks

Again, the appreciation takes time - and won't really even be possible in full until you can hear all the voices; it adds a whole new dimension. Fugues rarely have instant appeal - it takes time, practice and exposure to develop a passion for them. Some people never do.

[raindropshome]

Thank you J_menz, for letting me know it is possible to hear all 3 voices at all times. Once I can do that with the first fugue, I imagine the rest will be easier. Hope I can reach that level.

[flashyfingers]

Hi Pianostreet,

I was wondering if anyone here had any editions of music they could help me out with, or ways by which to understand hands / fingerings in a fugue. I'm currently working on Bach's fugue in F minor from the WTC. #1, and I just wish I could have a better way of going through and learning it; it's hard to practice with just one hand, because I don't know if a hand should be playing which line or the other.

What's the secret? Just struggle through it?

It doesn't matter which hand plays which part. To start things off, just try to play the soprano and alto in the right hand, and tenor bass in the left.

but try playing soprano and bass together, then alto and tenor. etc

[j_menz]

Thank you J_menz, for letting me know it is possible to hear all 3 voices at all times. Once I can do that with the first fugue, I imagine the rest will be easier. Hope I can reach that level.

It may take more than one, but from what you say in your case it may not. Only time will tell.

I should also add that once it clicks, a whole lot of other music will suddenly open up as having a whole new dimension. Romantic repertoire is chock full of polyphony (not counterpoint, usually, which is not the same thing).

[indianajo]

J_Menz

Also, when people talk about greatest satisfaction is to play fugue, what about it so satisfying? All I can feel now is that it's a different type of music, I'm not carried away. What's wrong?

My brain lights up with pleasure at certain fundamental chords like fifths, sixths, inverted fifths, thirds etc.  In a JSB fugue, these chords are fleeting and occur in a certain irregular rhythm, which is elusive.  The suspense of waiting for instants of pleasure is my take on the fugue.  The isolated tonic runs followed by a trill more typcal of Mozart don't do this for me.  Mozart is an 8 greatest hits sort of composer for me, limited to his great melodies. 
I don't know about this particular fugue, but hearing the JSB prelude and fugues and toccata and fugues gave me instant pleasure, when I first heard them on the radio in 1962.  The best collection of the favorites is JS Bach Organ favorites by E. Power Biggs on Colombia records.  It now has an implied volume 1 but had no number when it came out.  Volume 2 as a good piece or two on it, Volumes 3,4-5 are not nearly so much fun.
Playing JSB on the piano can be pleasant too, but the organ has an additional line in the feet that gives a piece that more chance of ittermittant tonality.    I would be as pleased with a pedal harpsichord I'm sure, although I checked the bargain papers for 25 years looking for a pedal unit to put under my piano before I gave up and bought a bargain electronic organ. 

[flashyfingers]

Have you found all the subject entries yet? Countersubjects?

[raindropshome]

It may take more than one, but from what you say in your case it may not. Only time will tell.

I should also add that once it clicks, a whole lot of other music will suddenly open up as having a whole new dimension. Romantic repertoire is chock full of polyphony (not counterpoint, usually, which is not the same thing).

Right now I can hear a little more than a few weeks ago. Mainly the Alto voice tied notes part (in between two measures). If you press the tied notes hard, it immidiately brings out the alto voice while your concentration is with a voice that has the subject or a soprano which usually stands out, so in that case you hear all three voices. But the exciting moment is very short lived because I get lost soon after that....Keep experimenting...

I haven't played many romantic pieces. Haven't played a lot for any styles. Just going nuts with this fugue right now. Everything else has to wait until I conquer this one....

[raindropshome]

  The best collection of the favorites is JS Bach Organ favorites by E. Power Biggs on Colombia records.  It now has an implied volume 1 but had no number when it came out.  Volume 2 as a good piece or two on it, Volumes 3,4-5 are not nearly so much fun.
Playing JSB on the piano can be pleasant too, but the organ has an additional line in the feet that gives a piece that more chance of ittermittant tonality.    I would be as pleased with a pedal harpsichord I'm sure, although I checked the bargain papers for 25 years looking for a pedal unit to put under my piano before I gave up and bought a bargain electronic organ. 

I'll check that out.  Maybe it's available on Utube so I can get a glimpse of it?

[indianajo]

Here is the little fugue, one of my favorites:

Next is the gigue fugue, which some think JSB didn't write.
Passacaglia & fugue in C min is a towering favorite of mine: I bought an electric organ to learn how to play it after owning the music book for 28 years. E Power Biggs does something to accent certain notes of arpeggios in the JSB Organ Favorites track which is artistic, easy on a piano, but quite a trick on a pipe organ where you have to use a different keyboard for the accented notes.   
The album has Toccatta & fugue in D min, which is pleasant but has been beat to death by repetition, starting with Walt Disney Fantasia which I saw when I was 7.  

[raindropshome]

Thanks. Will take a listen.