Mozart's difficulties

[marijn210999]

Hey,

Since some weeks I'm learning Mozart's K. 282 Sonata. The first and second movements, weren't that much of a problem but since a few days I encountered movement 3. I'm very frustrated because all the little and fast tunes aren't going well. It's like there is sticking glue in between the notes. So, the whole movement all by itself sounds sloppy. What can I do to improve my playing. Is it something technical. Are there some technical exercises which are very good for Mozart sonatas? Thank you very much.

Marijn

[pianoman53]

Scales and arpeggios.

[dima_76557]

Scales and arpeggios.

To that I would add: good alberti bass work + well-developed "short-impulse" trills.

@ marijn210999
The main problem with Mozart is, of course, doing what the text says with the utmost clarity and simplicity. Every slur, articulation, etc. should be just right to make it work. The pulse, heartbeat (I'm deliberately avoiding the word "tempo"), for example, should be such that you don't slow down when the alberti bass in the LH gives you trouble. Creating a solid MUSICAL image is crucial to overcome the technical problems. Here is an example of that movement by Mitsuko Uchida with the notes embedded in the clip to help you do that:

&t=9m45s

[marijn210999]

@dima_ogorodnikov

Many thanks. I also wanted to ask, what exercises are good to improve alberti bass, and what do you mean with "short-impulse" trills. Thanks!

[awesom_o]

What can I do to improve my playing.

You could get a performance degree from a reputable music school! 

[j_menz]

You could get a performance degree from a reputable music school! 

Aren't they the same graduates who regularly butcher Mozart in competitions? 

[dima_76557]

I also wanted to ask, what exercises are good to improve alberti bass,

Instead of wordy explanations, I'll give you a couple of clips:
Edna Golandsky: Alberti bass
Alberti Bass Piano Lesson - Josh Wright Piano TV

Keep in mind that the underlying basics is the ability to make a good trill between the different fingers, so watching these won't hurt either:
Trills and broken octaves with Edna Golandsky
Master Your Piano Trills - Josh Wright Piano TV

and what do you mean with "short-impulse" trills. Thanks!

Those short nasty embellishments of all kinds that make Scarlatti's music so difficult. They should be in your bag of tricks as a reflex that does not require intervention. Key is to determine a good fingering and then fit them in without hampering the musical flow of the piece.

[marijn210999]

Alright many thanks!

[hardy_practice]

I can show you how to do this kind of technique (a bit slower methinks!).  Only the exposition I'm afraid:

I was saving this to do after my Waltz project was done so it's a bit messy, but you get the idea.  My motto - Never mind the quality feel the width!  The tech's not due till Wednesday to unharsh my piano but needs must...

edit a little later: that is a bit of a mess isn't it?   .

edit again: that piano's just too horrible - I've put the celeste rail on.

[nyiregyhazi]

I can show you how to do this kind of technique (a bit slower methinks!).  Only the exposition I'm afraid:

I was saving this to do after my Waltz project was done so it's a bit messy, but you get the idea.  My motto - Never mind the quality feel the width!  The tech's not due till Wednesday to unharsh my piano but needs must...

edit a little later: that is a bit of a mess isn't it?   .

edit again: that piano's just too horrible - I've put the celeste rail on.

If "showing" him how to do it involves simply playing through some Mozart without a word of explanation, I think he might do rather better to watch films of pianists at a high level of both technical and musical attainment- than to watch a sloppy performance from a person with severe technical and musical problems (coupled with delusions of grandeur). I can scarcely believe that your arrogance runs so far that you've linked this performance as if were supposed to be some kind of model for him, that might speak for itself.

What is this "idea" that he casually assume he automatically gets? I haven't the first clue as to what is supposedly to be conveyed by a poorly controlled execution that involves a very stiff arm and wrist. You could at least elaborate on whatever this fiasco is supposed to illustrate to anybody.

It's small wonder the piano sounds horrible when you don't have the capacity to move with the necessary combination of positivity and lightness, that is required to execute good passage work. Using the practise pedal as a crutch isn't going to help with that. It will simply allow you to continue being deaf to quite how deficient your command over the sound is. You can start by actually listening to the release of longer notes- so the phrase endings are not so horifically clipped.

[awesom_o]

Aren't they the same graduates who regularly butcher Mozart in competitions? 

Sadly, not everyone can be an expert player. Not even after graduating from a fancy music school.

However, I think it's fairly safe to say that if the OP spends tens of thousands of dollars on the finest teachers available and follows their advice to the letter, he or she will come out a better player in four years. 

[hardy_practice]

You'll have to pardon my stalker Ma'am, he gets a little grumpy!

[outin]

Those short nasty lovely embellishments of all kinds that make Scarlatti's music so difficult endearing.

 

[nanabush]

Playing Mozart for me is like trying to tip-toe past a sleeping hungry bear.  I play it timid as hell because I'm scared of playing ONE wrong note and ruining the entire piece because everyone noticed it 

I love listening to Mozart, but I really didn't enjoy repeating the first 8 bars of an 'easy' sonata movement over and over again in my lesson, meanwhile my teacher said my Debussy Etudes were "sounding great!" and would let me run through them without stopping me every 3 seconds.

I like playing Mozart at my house, on my own, and let my cat (and maybe my girlfriend) listen in.  I just had constant bad experiences in lessons for such nitpicky things that seem to get brushed under the rug for ANY other composer!!

[maxy]

While playing Mozart, I feel naked. Not enough notes to hide my incompetence.

The greatest challenge is to play Mozart in a manly way. We love to emasculate his work in our interpretations, and we argue that it is the proper way!

[teresa_b]

Haven't posted here in ages, but since I love Mozart (actually looking for some posts on Brahms, but got sidetracked, lol!), this thread caught my eye.  I have played lots of Mozart, and one thing that helps me is to imagine putting "air" between each note in those fast runs.  Not to try to sound like a 1780 fortepiano, but to keep in the instrument in mind. No heavy arm weight, no tempo veers, just as clean and sparkling as you can make it. 

Practicing scales and arpeggios is good advice, of course.  Alberti bass can be tricky, and one key factor is, keep it light, a dynamic level softer than the melody, and put slight emphasis on the beats.  It is the harmony, and if it comes out "chunky" or too loud it will ruin the performance.

Phrasing, phrasing, phrasing!! 

[1piano4joe]

Hi marijn210999,

What exercises are good to improve alberti bass?

The Alberti bass is one of my favorite accompaniment figures. I have a short list of them.

Here they are:

Czerny Op. 599 Nos. 14,20,28,30,36,39,41,54,60,71,76,81

Czerny Op. 139 Nos. 1,17,23,34,49,51,66 (I play 49 and 51 quite often and include them as part of my repertoire)

Duvernoy Op. 176 Nos. 10, 15

Beethoven Sonatina in G major 1st movement

Mozart K. 545 Sonata in C major 1st movement (This has the scales, arpeggios, trills, Alberti bass and perhaps is overplayed and/or too well known but IMO could be a first choice for a Mozart sonata)

I hope this is what you were looking for, Joe.
 

[rmbarbosa]

to train Alberti bass, you may wish to do like this:
1) Left hand: play fingers 5 and 1 together, as fast as you can.
2)                 Lift your finger 1 a little and play 5-1 very fast (as you 1   finger is lifted, now you are playing for example C and G in a very fast speed.
3)Now, play 5-1 with your 5 lifted as in 2)
4) Now, play 3 and 5 together and very fast
5) Lift your 5 and play 3 -5
6) the same for 5-3
7) play 1-5 together and lift 3
In C scale: CG - C..G
                 GC - G..C
                 EG - E..G
                 GE - G..E
This is paralell sets. After a while, you are playing Alberti bass very fast
The best
Rui