Variation vs defect in CLP-465

[eatonite]

My husband purchased the Yamaha CLP-465GP for my birthday in 2012.  I had previously owned Clavinova 810-S.  I owned that for 17+ years and loved that being digital the notes never failed to sound any different from the day I bought it. On the CLP-465GP, I immediately noticed that the middle F & F# had a sort of "twangy" sound to it, as if it was out of tune. The dealer came out and cleaned the contacts, but the sound persisted. Then they replaced the keyboard, again, no change.  It is heard with and without headphones. I called Yamaha and was told that it is not a defect but a "variation"...that it cannot be fixed, and if I cannot learn to live with it, then "this may not be the instrument for me".  The rep explained that this is a sampling of those notes.  I do not claim to have the understanding of so many on this board in regards to the electronics.  But as a lay person, if a mold is warped or defective from the start then anything produced from that mold will only be a reproduction of that.  It seems to me that these notes were "sampled" from an instrument out of tune.  I see this as a defect.  Can anyone enlighten me to the contrary?? I am self taught, play every day for at least 1 hour, mostly classical. Other than this sound, for my level and need I really love this piano. It has the look of a baby grand, the weighted keys feel real enough, and it has more than enough functions for my need. BUT, the problem notes are smack in the middle of the keyboard and therefore frequently played.  It is in grand piano 1 voice, which is my favorite voice to play in and heard through all levels of brilliance.  I could play in one of the 3 other grand piano voices, but that doesn't seem right to force the user to this end given the price tag of this piano.

[nystul]

To them, a defect would be something that they could fix for you by repairing your unit or sending a replacement.  But your instrument works as it was designed, so if they replace it the problem will still be there (as happened).  I would hope they offered you a refund back at the time, but beyond that not much could be done.

It seems to happen sometimes with multi-sampled instruments, that people like the general sound of the patch but something seems a bit off about one or a few particular samples.  Unfortunately once you notice something strange about a sample, it will stick out every time you play it.

[hfmadopter]

The Concert Grand Sound on my Kawai had an overall sound I liked but the upper register could get annoying through certain speakers ( it's a stage piano),. The sample in that range was brash and certain speakers accentuated it. I toned it out with it's on board EQ and Tone adjustments. But that's not my point, since your model may not have those features not being a stage piano. This is the point. In using all the different piano voices on the piano ( it has about 10 piano voices), I have come to absolutely love the Mellow Grand 2, which I originally thought to be too mellow or mushy. I'm using that sample more and more. Experiment with the other sounds for various kinds of music that you play. You may find a new love too ! I have found this Mellow 2 to have a bell clear tone in the upper registers, especially on single note passages with less pedal use, it's charming, luring. It's a quality I had not noticed even a year ago.

[eatonite]

Thank you nystul and hfmadopter for your replies.  I was not offered a refund because at the time of reporting, it was thought that it might be a defect and many attempts were being made to resolve the issue.  The salesman has been very supportive and is continuing to test and trial new ideas before we hit that wall of live with it or move on.  I'm confident that if the decision is to move on, he and the dealership will be reasonable.  In the meantime I am playing in the other piano voices because as nystul pointed out, once one knows the variation is there, it's all one can focus on.

[quantum]

If this is an artifact of the sample itself, it would stand to reason to be reproducible on all pianos of the same model.  Does your dealer have a floor model in store that you can try out?

Notwithstanding, the overemphasis on perfection is one of the many reasons why some people feel that digital pianos do not carry the same life and ambiance of an acoustic instrument.  It is extremely rare, even for the finest concert instruments, to be perfectly in tune.  The very slight, almost imperceptible imperfections are what give these instruments their character and vivacity.  Perhaps, in the view of the sampling engineers, this artifact was an acceptable (read: within reason of the acoustic instrument) compromise in order to achieve balance for the entire sample set.

You said you tried the sound with headphones.  Do you have a different set of headphones or speakers to use with the piano.  How does the sound change when you switch to various listening devices?

[bronnestam]

I have also a CLP 465GP and I am very pleased with it. It is now 2 years. I have not noticed anything odd with the sound - with headphones. Without headphones and the loudspeaker on a high volume, I can sometimes notice a bit metallic sound on some keys in octave 2, counted from middle and up. It does not disturb me much, though. I went to a piano school this summer and spent a week playing on acoustics from morning to late night, lots of them but most of them Yamahas, and ... I realized that they were all individuals and none of them were exactly flawless, perhaps with the exception of a certain Steinway D which was arranged for recording purposes and therefore in best possible condition.

So, an acoustic undoubtly has more soul and often more "power" as well, but the advantage - and disadvantage - with digitals of the 465GP class is that they are perfectly tuned, or are supposed to be, which means that the slightest flaw is remarkable.

When I was at my piano school week I first got a bit annoyed that every piano I tried had some odd characteristics, despite that fact that a piano tuner worked all week trying to serve all the pianos. Squeky pedals, some key here and there with a slight funny sound, always an adapting process when you started to play on a new piano etcetera. BUT I also could conclude, after my week, that all my "digital practice" were not in vain. Often on this discussion board you see people claiming that you "ruin" your playing by practicing on digitals. This is not true. Yes, you need some time to adjust to different instruments, but you do it rather quickly. You need to play on acoustics on time to time, just to get used to them as well, but for daily practice the digital is excellent.

Yes, this digital is a beauty, isn't it?    I love it!

 

[eatonite]

I agree quantum, one would think that if this is a result of sampling and reproduction, that it would be in all the GP465 models.  This is one reason I posted, hoping to hear from other GP465 owners, such as bronnestam, who doesn't notice this particular problem.  The salesman I am working with says he has heard similar sounds in other GP465's, but not consistently middle F and F#. I have tried 3 sets of headphones, and hear the same twangy sound of the middle F and F#.   To keep myself from perseverating on that sound, I took the advice of hfmadopter and have been spending more time playing in other voices.  Thank you all for your input.