Minor Scales in 3rds and 6ths

[daggenhurstfan]

Hello All,

I was wondering if somebody has a resource for the fingering charts of minor scales a 3rd and 6th apart? Most books i've looked in seem to have them only for the major scales.

Liszt's exercises have them as well, the but the fingerings seem to be idiosyncratic to the scales. Are his the standard way to play them?

Also a follow up question.. in general do you finger these scales in their own right, or as a transposition of the regular scale?

For example in c major right hand starting at the 3rd

do you go 31234123 (a c major scale pattern starting on 3)

or do you go 12312345 (essentially an e phrygian scale)

this information will help me apply it to the remaining major and minor scales in 3rds and 6ths

[1piano4joe]

Hi daggenhurstfan,

Alfred has a book, "The Complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios and Cadences". This has all the major scales a 3rd and a 6th apart but NOT the minor scales.

However, it is a logical conclusion to finger the minor scales in the same fashion as the major scales.

Therefore, start with 3 and not the thumb.

So, A harmonic minor becomes 31234123 just like the C Major fingering.

In other words, the fingering doesn't change just because your a third or sixth apart.

Sorry, I don't know of a resource but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Although, you probably don't need one now.

I hope I have been helpful, Joe.

[daggenhurstfan]

Hi daggenhurstfan,

Alfred has a book, "The Complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios and Cadences". This has all the major scales a 3rd and a 6th apart but NOT the minor scales.

However, it is a logical conclusion to finger the minor scales in the same fashion as the major scales.

Therefore, start with 3 and not the thumb.

So, A harmonic minor becomes 31234123 just like the C Major fingering.

In other words, the fingering doesn't change just because your a third or sixth apart.

Sorry, I don't know of a resource but that doesn't mean there isn't one. Although, you probably don't need one now.

I hope I have been helpful, Joe.

Thank you joe! I'm of the same mindset, the only thing that caused me to doubt that was that Liszt fingers them as scales in their own right

[1piano4joe]

Hi daggenhurstfan,

The Mcfarren has what your looking for.

Here is the link

 https://csokabeata.hu/Kottak/Gyakorlatok/Macfarren%20-%20Scale%20and%20Arpeggio%20Manual.pdf

I hope this helps, Joe.

P.S. Also, this

The Manual of Scales, Broken Chords, and Arpeggios for Piano for Piano. Studies, ABRSM Exams. Education. Grades 1-8. Method book. Published by ABRSM (Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music) (PE.9781860961120).

ISBN 1-86096-112-6. Education.

The first new edition for over 60 years, this comprehensive manual of scales arpeggios and broken chords now includes whole-tone scales and augmented arpeggios. With an informative introduction by Ruth Gerald, a clear page layout and accessible structure; this is an excellent resource for all pianists!

I found this on Sheetmusicplus.

And this

https://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/d/d3/IMSLP69769-PMLP140424-Cooke-Mastering_the_Scales_and_Arpeggios.pdf

I have these. I just forgot I have them. I bought things so long ago and they were then and now beyond me like Brahms 51, etc. I have only perused their contents on occasion, Joe.

[daggenhurstfan]

Hi daggenhurstfan,

The Mcfarren has what your looking for.

Here is the link

 https://csokabeata.hu/Kottak/Gyakorlatok/Macfarren%20-%20Scale%20and%20Arpeggio%20Manual.pdf

I hope this helps, Joe.

P.S. Also, this

The Manual of Scales, Broken Chords, and Arpeggios for Piano for Piano. Studies, ABRSM Exams. Education. Grades 1-8. Method book. Published by ABRSM (Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music) (PE.9781860961120).

ISBN 1-86096-112-6. Education.

The first new edition for over 60 years, this comprehensive manual of scales arpeggios and broken chords now includes whole-tone scales and augmented arpeggios. With an informative introduction by Ruth Gerald, a clear page layout and accessible structure; this is an excellent resource for all pianists!

I found this on Sheetmusicplus.

And this

https://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/d/d3/IMSLP69769-PMLP140424-Cooke-Mastering_the_Scales_and_Arpeggios.pdf

I have these. I just forgot I have them. I bought things so long ago and they were then and now beyond me like Brahms 51, etc. I have only perused there contents on occasion, Joe.

fantastic! precisely what i was looking for thank you!

I've noticed that these editors seem to prefer applying generic fingerings to these scales to fit certain patterns, while Liszt offers fingerings that make more sense in terms of phrasing, but become idiosyncratic to that specific scale (and in certain places are actually fingered differently ascending than descending (melodic minors) )

this often results in "standard" fingerings having awkward turnarounds involving 4 -3 - 4 in the sixth and third, because of the insistence on beginning the displaced scale with the finger that would usually play it in a regular scale, where as Liszt's fingerings feel great

what are you (the community's) thoughts regarding this, which method do you prefer?

[dima_76557]

-

[Bob]

You can always come up with your own too.  You learn a lot that way.