Prelude in E Minor - Composition

[ajlongspiano]

Hi everyone, you might remember me from when I posted my Prelude in C# Minor here. I composed this work a few days ago and I feel it to be closer to me than any other work I've composed. I hope it speaks to you in some way.

- AJ

[faulty_damper]

It's a nice little prelude.  Somber and reflective.  However, there are some very awkward leaps which distort the musical idea. E.g. m50, the jump to the C.  That needs to be revised so that it's comprehensible.

In terms of the performance, the melody is very punchy, percussive, which is very annoying; it lacks musical shape and harmonic resolutions are accented when it should be resolved. The trio section should be performed much more upbeat to reflect the happier mood.

[ajlongspiano]

Thanks for the comment. My audio interface recorded this way too loud so I apologize for that. My playing isn't that bad I promise haha. Thanks for listening.

[awesom_o]

I'm not sure whether it's more humorous or hubris that faulty_damper is actually telling ajlongspiano HOW he should interpret his OWN composition. 

[ajlongspiano]

Haha, hi awesome_o! How are you? Thanks for stopping by, you are my favorite piano street member. Very insightful!

[awesom_o]

thanks, AJ.

I enjoyed your composition, and found it to be quite Chopinesque in places!

A courtesy accidental in measure 53 for the G natural in the RH would be nice.

I also couldn't help but notice that in measure 23, you played a D# in the RH, while the note in the score is a C#... if you want it to be a C#, again, a courtesy accidental would be advisable since the RH has just played a C natural in the previous beat!

[ajlongspiano]

Just added the accidental to the Gn and C#. I had a slight technical slip there and didn't feel like rerecording. Thanks for the pointers!

[faulty_damper]

I'm not sure whether it's more humorous or hubris that faulty_damper is actually telling ajlongspiano HOW he should interpret his OWN composition. 

Have you ever heard that composers are often the worst interpreters of their own works?  This is something I've heard a lot as an undergrad and I have to agree that this is true.  That's why there are performers and then there are composers.  They are two separate things though sometimes, composers can be performers.

[awesom_o]

Have you ever heard that composers are often the worst interpreters of their own works? 

Never heard this... where did you hear it from?
It was certainly not true of Liszt or Chopin....

[ajlongspiano]

And even if it was true. Our perception of interpretation is a subjective thing. I agree that my recording had faults. However, it was due to my recording equiptment.

[faulty_damper]

Never heard this... where did you hear it from?
It was certainly not true of Liszt or Chopin....

This was something that was said a lot during my undergrad.  Initially, I thought this was BS because: Rachmaninoff, Chopin, Liszt, Alkan, et al... but then I really started to listen to recordings of Rachmaninoff playing his own works and thought they were lacking and filled with faults, both musical and technical, that I immediately identified.  Then there were some student composers who performed their own works and they were clearly lacking in both the musical and technical.  Then there were the modern music performances where the composers worked directly with the performers (and even conducted some of them) and again, the same musical faults.  After so many of these experiences, I eventually agreed with the statement that composers are the worst interpreters of their own works.  "Worst" may be exaggerating but definitely, composers are not the best interpreters of their own works.

[faulty_damper]

And even if it was true. Our perception of interpretation is a subjective thing. I agree that my recording had faults. However, it was due to my recording equiptment.

No, it's not a recording issue, it's an actual performance issue. E.g. V-I harmonies should be performed with a resolution V>I - the resolution means it should be played softer than the dominant.  Tension>release.  But there isn't this quality which is why I mentioned that it was "punchy" and "percussive".

[awesom_o]

I eventually agreed with the statement that composers are the worst interpreters of their own works.  "Worst" may be exaggerating but definitely, composers are not the best interpreters of their own works.

Surely every performance by every composer must be considered individually, just as every performance. Any sort of blanket statement regarding all composers cannot possibly be taken seriously...

Then again, your statements tend not to be taken seriously whether or not they involve blankets...
 

[faulty_damper]

Surely every performance by every composer must be considered individually, just as every performance. Any sort of blanket statement regarding all composers cannot possibly be taken seriously...

All of the composers I've spoken to have said what you probably think: They are very open to how their compositions are interpreted.  The thing that I've always noticed when composers hear their own works after being performed is that they are "very happy" or "satisfied" about the performance (even when it was a very poor performance by musical standards.)  This leads me to believe that composers don't really know what they want out of their own compositions. Or they are just happy that anyone actually wanted to perform it.  Personally, I wouldn't want any of my compositions to be performed poorly.  Partly because poor performances can kill a good composition.

Then again, your statements tend not to be taken seriously whether or not they involve blankets...

It's sad to see you continue these unprovoked insults.  I think you are more and more insecure as a result.

[ajlongspiano]

And this is why people don't like posting here lol

[awesom_o]

All of the composers I've spoken to have said what you probably think: They are very open to how their compositions are interpreted. 

Good composers bring beautiful music into the world, and are eager to hear how different perspectives on their own work can be beautiful in different ways. 

Since you have yet to share anything of beauty with the community, people have serious doubts as to whether or not you have any actual musical skill!    Hopefully you'll post something amazing eventually, and put all of our suspicions to rest!

[cbreemer]

All of the composers I've spoken to have said what you probably think:

Oh, if you've actually spoken to these composers surely nobody here should dispute your insights  

[faulty_damper]

And this is why people don't like posting here lol

Well, there are two ways to look at it:
1) people post to share and showoff
2) people post to get feedback

Very few explicitly request the latter; they post for feedback so that they can improve.  The overwhelming majority fall into the former; they are very proud of their achievements and want recognition for it.  However, in reality, very few actually achieve highly.  This is probably why so many respond negatively to actual feedback because they are projecting their own insecurities.  They think they can perform poorly and expect to be lauded for it.  That's just being delusional.  It's an epidemic.

[awesom_o]

Everyone wants feedback, but only if it comes from better, more accomplished artists.

Anyone who provides feedback as though they are an accomplished artist/piano teacher without any actual proof of their achievements is delusional. 

[faulty_damper]

You're making a very common fallacy here.  If the feedback is accurate, then it stands alone.  It doesn't require the giver of the feedback to prove anything.

I'm repeating this example again but one of my teachers was a famous concert pianist.  He was admired by a lot of students and the other piano teachers because of his reputation.  Whenever he gave instruction, his students obeyed without question.  Even after months of practice didn't appear to help them improve, they blamed themselves for their failures.  Even when they injured themselves to the point where they had to bandage their wrists and see doctors (this happened to more than one student, btw) they still obeyed.  In fact, almost all of the piano related injuries occurred with only his students.  But worse than the injuries was the fact that, in comparison to the other students of other teachers, they didn't improve much at all.  In time, some of his students changed studios.

The point of this story is that just because someone has proof of his or her prowess doesn't necessarily mean the advice he gives is gold.  Just like some of the advice you give I know to be useless, many of the students believe you because of your "proof".  Again, the proof is in the pudding.  If they don't improve after following that advice, then that advice has very little merit.  Caveat emptor.

[deandeblock]

Everyone wants feedback, but only if it comes from better, more accomplished artists.

Anyone who provides feedback as though they are an accomplished artist/piano teacher without any actual proof of their achievements is delusional. 

Do you have to be a michelin starred Chéf to give feedback about the food you just ate at a fancy restaurant?

[awesom_o]

If the feedback is accurate, then it stands alone.  It doesn't require the giver of the feedback to prove anything.

The trouble is, nobody can give feedback that isn't based upon their musical opinion. And since not all opinions are equal, the advice some people give is better than the advice others provide. It is ultimately up to the the individual whose advice they would rather follow

[ajlongspiano]

I do like feedback faulty_damper . I appreciate the compositional advice you gave but not the performance advice. If I wanted to show off just for good comments I would post in a easy going place. If I wanted to show off you can bet I wouldn't post here haha.

[j_menz]

Personally, I wouldn't want any of my compositions to be performed poorly.  Partly because poor performances can kill a good composition.

Indeed, Fuer Elise has been dead for years. 

[faulty_damper]

The trouble is, nobody can give feedback that isn't based upon their musical opinion. And since not all opinions are equal, the advice some people give is better than the advice others provide. It is ultimately up to the the individual whose advice they would rather follow

So is that why you denigrate the advice I give?  To make me look less credible and suggest that you are superior because you have "proof"?

[Petter]

I liked it, I could do without the reprise though, cheers.

[ajlongspiano]

I liked it, I could do without the reprise though, cheers.

Thanks Peter!

[swagmaster420x]

I tend to agree with faulty on the percussive/metallic sounding notes, but yeah that's probably due to the recording. It kind of interfered with listening to the piece though, so I would prefer listening to a higher quality recording to appreciate the piece.

About the m50 "jump" also noted by faulty - I wasn't jarred at all, and it didn't seem to me that the C was in a glaringly higher register than the previous notes. I actually really liked the jumps into high pitch in that vicinity; I think a composition should have something in its ending that varies from what's already been observed in an attention grabbing way. For me it did that.

[ajlongspiano]

I tend to agree with faulty on the percussive/metallic sounding notes, but yeah that's probably due to the recording. It kind of interfered with listening to the piece though, so I would prefer listening to a higher quality recording to appreciate the piece.

About the m50 "jump" also noted by faulty - I wasn't jarred at all, and it didn't seem to me that the C was in a glaringly higher register than the previous notes. I actually really liked the jumps into high pitch in that vicinity; I think a composition should have something in its ending that varies from what's already been observed in an attention grabbing way. For me it did that.

Thanks so much, I'm glad it spoke to you. I ordered a good microphone last week and will be recording my Preludes on a Grand Piano. Goodbye crappy interface haha

[faulty_damper]

About the m50 "jump" also noted by faulty - I wasn't jarred at all, and it didn't seem to me that the C was in a glaringly higher register than the previous notes.

Register is not what I meant at all when I pointed this part out.  It was musical meaning that was problematic.  In context, it doesn't make musical sense because it's so out there.  Seems more like a cut 'n paste just to include it. Know what I mean?

I tend to agree with faulty on the percussive/metallic sounding notes, but yeah that's probably due to the recording. It kind of interfered with listening to the piece though, so I would prefer listening to a higher quality recording to appreciate the piece.

It's not a recording issue but a performing one.  The opening measures don't have this punchy quality but the phrase from mm7 on is what best exemplifies what I'm describing.

[swagmaster420x]

Register is not what I meant at all when I pointed this part out.  It was musical meaning that was problematic.  In context, it doesn't make musical sense because it's so out there.  Seems more like a cut 'n paste just to include it. Know what I mean?

Did I say you were talking about register? I was just leaving a comment on the same part you commented on.
Regarding musical meaning, I mean, I didn't find it out of place, genuinely. I'm not trying to contradict you for the sake of being petty (though I wouldn't put such a thing past you); I actually did not notice those measures being "out there" on my first listen. I went back to them because your comment caught my attention. Musically, an interpretation that I think is tenable for the parts that reach high is glimpsing the truth, or the hidden object of the rest of the piece's "moping" (not meant negatively), and then toppling back to the ground again. It may seem so to you, but this isn't an interpretation I had to force, I.e. the passage was musically nonsensical so I conjured up something to try to fit nonsense. It's more of me trying to come up with words that fit the unrefined, initial sensation I already got from it just by listening. At this point it's my word against yours, so if other people comment on the same section it will probably be more helpful to the poster.

[pianoguy711]

how did you get the 21-note-long fioratura into measure 44?  I still don't know how to write those in my notation software.

[ajlongspiano]

I wrote a 21-tuplet or whatever you'd call it and then clicked the option to make the notes small.

[pablosalaco]

Measure 39- I would make those 16th notes octaves, more dynamic contrasts.

Very nice progression, I would definitely alter the harmonic rhythm though. It is a tad monotonous and predictable. Maybe create more motion with the fifth of the chords. Another thing I would do is give the thumb of the left hand more non-chord tones to add color to your progression, maybe a little chromatic line here and there. 

Nevertheless your ideas are very strong and I can tell you have a good ear for melody!

[ajlongspiano]

Thanks for the response!