Scriabin Etude Op 8 no 12

[ahoffmann]

I had a hard time re-learning this. Not sure why. It's not technically difficult but getting it relatively polished seems to be a very tiring task.

[amytsuda]

I like it! I hear your story developing. Compared with other recordings I have heard, you start off a bit more pensive and reflective, and second time you repeat the theme, I hear some intensified feeling. And the middle section, I hear some monologue, someone talking to himself. I think it's different from those virtuostic performers storming thought the whole thing, and I really like it. I think the challenge is when you come back to A. I think you want to finally get to the storm and end in being resolved or something. But I feel since you were rather more expressive before getting there, the storm sounds contained in the small scale. I had a similar challenge in another piece (Liszt Obermann) and I have been wondering how to resolve this balance issue - banging harder, faster and more intensely doesn't create the ending storm effectively. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Anyway, I am simply an untrained amateur, so I may not make any sense - I wish I can play like you do. I just wanted to say, I really like it (I liked your Chopin etudes as well, but I like this even more).

[ahoffmann]

Hi amytsuda,

thanks for your kind words

I think you're absolutely right about the final storm comming off somewhat short. You're not the only person to notice that. I think I just didn't think enough about it. Normally, buildups are a strength of mine. But I have to confess, I was having a hard time polishing this piece - so much that other things lacked. Which is inexcusable really.

I learned Vallee d'Obermann a while back (just the notes, not polished). It's a great piece. And as you noted, a very good example of a huge climax that builds up over, well the entire piece really. As somebody said to me elsewhere, I think the trick there might be to use delay to create tension. You can only get faster/louder so and so much before it gets absurd - then I think the only tool is to get "bigger" (meaning slow down but in a way that a giant would seem to move slower than a human - if that makes sense).

What I think doesn't work well at all is what some people do when they just reset the climax and get really quiet only so they can make another climax. I find that a very unsatisfying solution.

I'm a big fan of long buildups. Here are some other notorious examples off the top of my head:

• Shostakovich Prelude and Fugue in d-minor
• Scarbo and to some extent also Ondine
• Mendelsohn Prelude and Fugue in e-minor
• Ligeti Devil's Staircase
• Scriabin Vers la Flamme and in fact many other pieces of his

[amytsuda]

Thank you for your tips! I will try that approach. By the way, I like the Shostakovich piece you mentioned. I used to listen to his symphonies decades ago when I was in high school orchestra but I never paid attentions to his piano compositions. 

Back to Etude 8/12, another thought I have is bass notes. Here is Horowitz I found on YouTube - - he is old so he pretty much hits every wrong notes as usual (you are probably 10 times cleaner). But one thing I notice is the way he uses bass notes (and left hand intensity) to increase the drama to the end. I find left hand makes huge differences with Scriabin in general.

Good luck polishing! Are you going to conquer all Scriabin etudes too?

[ahoffmann]

Yeah well Shostakovich's solo-piano repertoire is hit and miss. A lot of it is completely out of character and pretty uninteresting. But there are a few real gems here and there.

Thanks for the tips on the bass notes in the Scriabin. That's totally true. And interesting observation about Scriabin in general with the left hand. You know he hurt his right hand and had a hard time getting it back to play properly which is quite visible in his compositions where the left hand is often stretched and demanded greatly (this etude is a typical example).

I have no plans ever doing all Scriabin etudes. A lot of them I don't find very interesting. But some are amazing. Another old war horse of mine is the op 42 no 5. Strangely, although that is technically SOOOO much harder than this one, it's not nearly as hard to polish. That one I definitely want to do.

As for complete sets, probably Debussy etudes are more interesting (but I'm expecting to take 15 years to learn the chords etude). Or Scriabin's preludes.  Sigh. So much great stuff to do.

[verqueue]

I have no plans ever doing all Scriabin etudes. A lot of them I don't find very interesting. But some are amazing. Another old war horse of mine is the op 42 no 5. Strangely, although that is technically SOOOO much harder than this one, it's not nearly as hard to polish. That one I definitely want to do.

As for complete sets, probably Debussy etudes are more interesting (but I'm expecting to take 15 years to learn the chords etude). Or Scriabin's preludes.  Sigh. So much great stuff to do.

Yeah, it's so much great stuff to do - that was my thought when I read that thread... I'm glad that you found my tempo tip useful enough to share it .

I think the op. 8 is worth playing and it will be one of my projects in the future. And preludes... So much great stuff to do.

The op. 42 no 5 is harder but I think you'll manage it. I'm always wondering when I play it, if not holding the bottom notes in left hand on the second page is cheating or not... But I'd never seen anyone holding them.

To stop offtoping I'll write once more, that I like very much your performance of my favorite etude.

[ahoffmann]

Thx again verqueue,

Well I know that the op 42 no 5 I actually mastered pretty well once. It was one of my audition pieces. I didn't realize what a killer it was until later. Don't you mean the right hand? I had to look at the music but the left hand has no held notes (unless you count those it playes from the right hand). But the right hand has lots of held notes. I konw that I held them back in the day (I was a freak) but nowdays I'd be pragmatic and only hold them if I wanted to change the pedal. Actaully, I wonder if one could do some of it without pedal and hold the longer notes, what that would sound like. Haven't heard anyone do that.

[verqueue]

Oh, yes right. I play the piano, drive a car and still I don't know which hand is which...

[amytsuda]

verqueue, I noticed your piano practice blog. Your f-minor Ballade is awesome! If I were a composer, I'd be so happy to have someone so inspired into every phrase!

[verqueue]

Thanks amystuda, I'm glad that you like it (it's definitely not finished). I put a Ballade into audition room some time ago.

I konw that I held them back in the day (I was a freak) but nowdays I'd be pragmatic and only hold them if I wanted to change the pedal. Actaully, I wonder if one could do some of it without pedal and hold the longer notes, what that would sound like. Haven't heard anyone do that.

I have too small hands to even try . These notes are sometimes very stretchy for my without holding them. I think even 10-th span is to less to execute this without tension.