Questions: Beethoven Sonata Op. 90 No. 27

[mound]

I've decided this piece is to be my next "big piece" and am in the beginning stages of researching it (I've enjoyed listening to this in particular, both movements, since I first heard it years ago)

Anyway - Normally my teacher provides me Urtext copies of pieces if he has it. He's away now for the holidays, so I downloaded a copy from sheetmusicarchive.net

I have a couple questions about this score in particular, as well as the piece in general.

1. What is the source for these scores? Are they reliable? I have read the score while listening three times now, I don't see any omissions, but there are a few spots in the PDF, like for example on page 3, after bar 118, I see a double bar divider, followed by accidentals in both staves on F, accidentals, but no measure, and the A in the bass is tied into Bar 119 on the next page, but bar 119 shows no accidentals.. (the measures are not numbered, I counted them) I wonder if there is a bar missing?  I see this sort of thing, where it looks like a bar is starting at the end of the line on a page, a double vertical bar followed by accidental(s), but then the next line/page, the line starts as normal.  Just wanted to double check, again, listening, I don't see anything missing. I guess that's it really for the score itself, I just want to be sure it's a "reliable source" (or should I go buy the Urtext book containing this Sonata?) It does look good from my initial read/listen.

2. More to the point of this post, I'm looking for resources so I can study further the Sonata form. What makes a Sonata a Sonata? Where can I learn more about this piece in particular, so that I can get a better higher level understanding of the architecture? (I can already hear the entire piece back in my mind, but from a harmony/theory/form perspective, I'd like to study it further)

So, in conclusion, is this score legit or should I go buy Urtext, and any resources on this sonata, and the form in general, please share

Thanks!
-Paul

[bernhard]

1. No. These scores are not reliable. Their source has to be over 75 years old in order to avoid copyright issues. This means that they will not benefit from extensive musicological research done since the 1950s. They will be heavily edited, and you will never know which directions are from Beethoven, and which from the editor. So, yes do get the Urtext. If you want a student edition with fingerings and suggestions, the best I’ve come across is the ABRSM edited by Harold Craxton with comments by Donald Tovey. You don’t need to buy the complete set, they sell the sonatas separately.

2. Charles Rosen has written – arguably – the definitive books on the subject. Try:

The classical style (Norton)
Sonata forms (Norton)
Beethoven’s piano sonatas – A short companion. (Yale University Press)

Most interesting is Robert Taub – Playing the Beethoven piano sonatas (Timber Press) where he describes his experiences of playing through the whole cycle.

Finally, for analysis try:

Donald Tovey – A short companion to the Beethoven sonatas. (ABRSM)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[mound]

Thanks Bernhard!

Do you think, this late sonata Op. 90 being the one that's "in my head" these days, having not yet learned any of Beethoven's Sonata's, is a poor choice for a first being so late in the span of his works, or does that not really matter at all? (I'd think it doesn't matter, from a "play what inspires me" standpoint.. but pedagogically, there may be another view on this)

-Paul

[bernhard]

Thanks Bernhard!

Do you think, this late sonata Op. 90 being the one that's "in my head" these days, having not yet learned any of Beethoven's Sonata's, is a poor choice for a first being so late in the span of his works, or does that not really matter at all? (I'd think it doesn't matter, from a "play what inspires me" standpoint.. but pedagogically, there may be another view on this)

-Paul

Of course it does not really matter.

However, most people agree that this is a reasonably difficult sonata (in progressive order of difficulty it has been rated by a number of people as being the 20th - 23rd  most difficult sonata amongst the 32). Have a look here for the order of difficulty of the sonatas:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2748.msg23723.html#msg23723

So if you are unfamiliar with Beethoven’s sonatas style and the technique to play them, you might want to do a couple of easier ones before tackling this one. For instance, Op. 49 no. 1 is quite easy and a delightful piece (I love the rondo), and Op. 79 is also pretty manageable and a very nice sonata.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Motrax]

Out of curiosity, why is Op. 90 one considered one of the more difficult sonatas? Though there are a few painful stretches for the small-handed, in general I found it to be relatively easy.

As far as the actual question at hand, I believe Op. 90 to be a fine starting point with Beethoven Sonatas. The second movement introduces Beethoven's lyrical style, and the first movement features Beethoven's more "angry" side. It's a beautiful piece, and relatively easy to memorize due to all the repetition.

[bernhard]

Out of curiosity, why is Op. 90 one considered one of the more difficult sonatas? Though there are a few painful stretches for the small-handed, in general I found it to be relatively easy.

Probably because Beethoven wrote 19 easier ones.

[mound]

Interesting.. Thanks!

[ahmedito]

Hi. I've been a long time forum member, and due to a new school and a superb teacher (Reina Sofia superior with Dimitri Bashkirov and Galina Egyazarova) I haven't posted in a long time, although Im checking in and reading some topics once in a while.

I just had to post something here.

op. 90 is my personal sonata form warhorse. I love it, I play it whenever I can in public, I auditioned for my 2 conservatories with it and won a competition. I think it is one of the hardest sonatas to play well, because of its apparent simplicity, and because it is musically one of the most difficult things to pull off. The character, the tempos the long wierd phrases and the form are very difficult (and some fingering stuff, but not a lot). Its not Hammerklavier, but I do believe its a very hard sonata to start with if you haven't played Beethoven sonatas before. Its like the Pastorale sonata, relatively simple on the hands, but really a nightmare of study, thought, understanding and reflection. I think with this type of music its is very easy to sound like a 12 year old. You need a lot of maturity to play it well.

[mound]

Interesting comments Ahmedito..  I'm not h ell-bent on playing this, I'll talk it over with my teacher.. It's just totally on my brain right now.

funny you mention the Hammerklavier, I'm listening to that right now (not in response to your post, I just happening to be listening to it) - there's no way I would even attempt to tackle this at this point..  It seems worlds apart from Op. 90 though..

Of course doing justice to Beethoven's intent is my biggest concern.. I'm pretty sure with diligence I can handle the notes and technique required for Op. 90.

-Paul

[kempff]

It is one of my favourites as well, it marks the beginning of Beethoven's third period.