An introduction

[MarkAllison]

Hi,

I should have introduced myself before posting away. Anyway, Marc McCarthy pointed this site out to me so I thought I'd pop along - I've been subscribing to rec.music.makers.piano for a while and I like the look of this place, so I've registered and started joining in.

My piano history
Had lessons at school using the intuitive method between ages 13-15 - reached Grade 3. My teachers were an old woman, followed by a very talented eccentric organ player who actually had some records published.

After leaving school I did not have access to a piano and also lost interest for some reason (I wish I hadn't). 16 years later I pick up from where I left off and started in Jan 2003 age 31. I have a piano teacher who is very good and really understands music. I've recently introduced him to Chang's book and I'm looking forward to hearing what he says. Currently having 30 minutes per week but I feel that is woefully inadequate as I'm practicing 1-1.5 hours per day. I think maybe 2 1 hour lessons per week would be perfect, or 2 30 minute lessons.

Kit

• 1987 Yamaha U3 Japanese import - very nice starter piano, has a lovely deep sound and is in mint condition
• 2004 Yamaha CLP-120 - the sound is just about acceptable and allows me to practice in the evenings with headphones and record my music easily
• PC for recording - connected to the line out sockets on the CLP-120

So, that's it really, I am getting a feeling that I really want to accelerate my learning and I have devoured Mr Chang's Fundamentals of Piano Practice book and I think it's a fabulous resource - I'm applying his methods and making good progress. I do feel that my lessons need to be more frequent and possibly longer too.

Pieces
Currently learning:

• Ludovico Einaudi - Le Onde
• Mozart - Rondo alla Turca from Sonata No. 11 in A Maj. K331
• Mozart - Sonata 16 in C Maj. K545
• Two film music pieces my teacher gave me - not really keen on these

I think there's room for me to learn another one - will be pressing my teacher to suggest something. I quite fancy Clair de Lune by Debussy, but perhaps that's a little ambitious for me at the moment - I went and bought the music anyway because I love it.

Thanks for reading! Looking forward to chatting with many of you

Mark.

[Daniel_piano]

So, that's it really, I am getting a feeling that I really want to accelerate my learning and I have devoured Mr Chang's Fundamentals of Piano Practice book and I think it's a fabulous resource - I'm applying his methods and making good progress. I do feel that my lessons need to be more frequent and possibly longer too.

Welcome Mark
A question: since you're applying Chang method, I wonder what are you doing to bring your pieces up at speed, i.e. what method are you using to eventually perform your pieces at full speed according to Chang method?

Daniel

[Mycroft]

"not really keen on these"

Then why learn them?  Ask your teacher why they're being assigned.  If it's just so you can learn some show tunes and their styles, then perhaps you can agree on a couple that you are keen on.

Have you read Bernhard's 20-minute practice session information?  That concept boosted my productivity tremendously!

[Daniel_piano]

Currently learning:

• Ludovico Einaudi - Le Onde
• Mozart - Rondo alla Turca
• Mozart - Sonata 16 (will check this later)
• Two film music pieces my teacher gave me - not really keen on these

Don't get offended by this but:
I've noticed that the pieces you're not keen on are those that are not classical
So I agree that you should forget about learning if you "don't like them" but if your dislike is just out of intellectual reason (because film music is less "serious" than classical music) then I would think twice about abandoning them and judging them instead according to your taste
I don't know you so anything I said is just speculation, don't get offended

Daniel

[MarkAllison]

"not really keen on these"

Then why learn them?  Ask your teacher why they're being assigned.  If it's just so you can learn some show tunes and their styles, then perhaps you can agree on a couple that you are keen on.

Have you read Bernhard's 20-minute practice session information?  That concept boosted my productivity tremendously!

Well, because my teacher tells me that pieces he assigns me are carefully chosen for a particular quality that he thinks I'm weak on. For instance one of the film pieces is taken from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon called Eternal Vow by Tan Dun. Now, the piece is OK, actually, but I wouldn't have picked it personally. The piece has some interesting timing in it which is off-beat, so I am learning something from it.  I'm not overly keen on it though, and it has to be said that I tend to practice it less than the pieces I love - Mozart.

Do you have a link to Bernhard's 20 minute practice session info? I'd be interested to see that. Thanks for replying.

Mark.

[MarkAllison]

Don't get offended by this but:
I've noticed that the pieces you're not keen on are those that are not classical
So I agree that you should forget about learning if you "don't like them" but if your dislike is just out of intellectual reason (because film music is less "serious" than classical music) then I would think twice about abandoning them and judging them instead according to your taste
I don't know you so anything I said is just speculation, don't get offended

No offense taken at all Daniel! Classical music is the area that I love, but I also like Jazz and Blues too, I'm not keen on "popular music" - for the piano anyway. The reason I'm not keen on them is that I wouldn't pick them off the shelf and put them in my CD player. I just wouldn't listen to the music. But you're right their could be an element of intellectual snobbery in there too somewhere...

[MarkAllison]

A question: since you're applying Chang method, I wonder what are you doing to bring your pieces up at speed, i.e. what method are you using to eventually perform your pieces at full speed according to Chang method?

I use Chang's method (mostly)! I am learning the pieces HS and getting them up to speed HS without pedal. I am taking the pieces 3 pages at a time and when I get one set of 3 pages (or a natural break in the music) up to speed HS, I go on to the next. When the whole piece is at full speed HS both hands, I then play it slowly HT.

Bits that I can't do HT, I cycle HS, then try again. I am concentrating on accuracy at the moment, and the speed seems to come on its own without me paying much attention to it.  I am very new to this, so I could be doing it all wrong, but I seem to be making faster progress now than I was. However I've only been applying the Chang methods these last 2 or 3 weeks since I discovered it. I am trying to get the approval of my piano teacher for these methods because he wants me to play HT pretty early on in a new piece.

It's a bit of a dilemma for me because I respect my teacher and want to trust him fully, but there some conflicts between his methods of teaching and Chang's and I want to find the best way to learn, I really do.

Mark.

[Daniel_piano]

I use Chang's method (mostly)! I am learning the pieces HS and getting them up to speed HS without pedal. I am taking the pieces 3 pages at a time and when I get one set of 3 pages (or a natural break in the music) up to speed HS, I go on to the next. When the whole piece is at full speed HS both hands, I then play it slowly HT.

Thanks for the answer
Now, do you practice HS 3 pages trying to bring them up at speed quickly or do you practice small chunks (even very small chuncks) and bring them up to speed?

Bits that I can't do HT, I cycle HS, then try again. I am concentrating on accuracy at the moment, and the speed seems to come on its own without me paying much attention to it.  I am very new to this, so I could be doing it all wrong,

Don't know if it is wrong
What I understood from Chang book is that speed should be attained by alternating the speed of small chunks
First you play at confortable speed, then play faster, then play slower
Confortable, faster, slower, confortable, faster, slower and so on using the faster as exploratory movements and slower as accuracy

The funny thing is that I seem to be the only one who understood Chang instrunctions this way

It's a bit of a dilemma for me because I respect my teacher and want to trust him fully, but there some conflicts between his methods of teaching and Chang's and I want to find the best way to learn, I really do.

No conflict at all
At your lesson you follow your teacher and listen to him, in your practice you just practice your own way
There nothing strange or dishonest in this, in fact good teachers always tell their students to find their own personal way to practice

Daniel

[MarkAllison]

Thanks for the answer
Now, do you practice HS 3 pages trying to bring them up at speed quickly or do you practice small chunks (even very small chuncks) and bring them up to speed?

I practice 2 bars at a time and switch hands usually. Then when I'm comfortable I go for longer stretches.

Don't know if it is wrong
What I understood from Chang book is that speed should be attained by alternating the speed of small chunks
First you play at confortable speed, then play faster, then play slower
Confortable, faster, slower, confortable, faster, slower and so on using the faster as exploratory movements and slower as accuracy

The funny thing is that I seem to be the only one who understood Chang instrunctions this way

Hmmm, I must re-read this section of his book. Thanks for pointing this out. I'm certainly not doing that. The one thing I AM doing though is playing slowly before I quit (and before I switch hands for HS work) to enhance PPI.

[Mycroft]

"Do you have a link to Bernhard's 20 minute practice session info?"

Unfortunately, Bernhard's pearls of wisdom are scattered all over the forum like a million dollar necklace that has broken onto a ballroom floor.  Here's one post where he explains the 20 minute rule:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3039.msg26535.html#msg26535

In other posts he explains how to determine what to practice in that 20 minutes.   What I've been doing is scouring the forum, following links (when they work) and doing searches with various terms, trying to find the pearls.  I'm collecting them in a Word document as I find them.  Finding specific ones is tough; for example, the best post on repeated note group practice that I've found so far didn't have the word "repeated" in it. :-/  Bernhard frequently posts a whole list of links, when he does, dig through them and you'll find a ton of information.