confused about jazz chords

[chopincat]

I had my first ever jazz lesson today and it was a lot harder than I expected. I'm really not used to not having things written out, and I'm still not entirely sure what some of the symbols mean. Right now I just want to make sure I'm playing the chords right when I practice. So, for example, if the chord was Bb-7, I'd play Bb, Db, Ab, right? Whereas if the chord was Ab∆7, I'd play Ab, C, G? Thanks for any help!

[chopinlover01]

Yes- something tagged with "7" makes it a dominant seventh- you form a seventh chord based off the major scale of whatever chord tone, then flat the seventh.
I.E. F7- F A C Eb
A major seventh (which ironically is actually quite dissonant) is a seventh chord with no alterations of any kind.
I.E. A maj7- A C# E G#

So yes, you're mostly right. Then you get into minor sevenths (1 3b 5 7b) and diminished sevenths (which you probably already know at least the shapes of, as they come up so often in classical literature), half diminshed/ minor seventh 5b chords, then many other chords and common voicings...
Ah, jazz is so much fun...

[chopincat]

Thanks chopinlover! I actually knew about the 7ths already but I just wanted to make sure I was reading everything right as a whole.

The only thing that my teacher told me that differed from what you just said was that I should drop all the 5ths in the chords and just play the base, the 3rd and the 7th. Is that normal in jazz?

Also another question (sorry!) What does % mean? Does it just mean that the chord doesn't change?

[falala]

There is a practically infinite number of ways to voice chords, and which one you choose has a lot to do with style and context, so nobody can say what's "normal".

It is true that if you're going to omit a note from a 7th chord, the usual one to omit would be either the 5th or the root. The 3rd and the 7th are considered essential and are sometimes called "guide tones" because, with so much jazz harmony using chord progressions falling by fifth, they intertwine with each other and make smooth guiding lines from each chord to the next (the 7th of one chord resolving to the 3rd of the next, and vice versa).

The 3rd and 7th are also essential because without the 3rd you can't tell whether the chord is major or minor, and without the 7th it isn't a 7th chord at all, it's only a triad.

It may seem odd at first to speak of omitting the root, but again it comes down to context. If you're playing in a band with a bass player, you assume that he will play the root. If you're then playing 9th chords for example (either because they're notated as such, or just because you want to further spice up your 7th chords), you would often play 3rd-5th-7th-9th, with no root. So C7 would be voiced E-G-Bb-D. If OTOH you're playing solo, you'll often want to hear the root in the piano itself and you'll base the voicings on that.

I assume that what your teacher is getting you to do is play the roots in the left hand and the 3rds and 7ths in the right hand? That's a pretty common and useful starting point, as it strips things down and allows you to see, feel and hear the two fundamental things going on (root progression, and voice-leading of guide tones). It's only a starting point though.

[chopincat]

I assume that what your teacher is getting you to do is play the roots in the left hand and the 3rds and 7ths in the right hand? That's a pretty common and useful starting point, as it strips things down and allows you to see, feel and hear the two fundamental things going on (root progression, and voice-leading of guide tones). It's only a starting point though.

Actually, he's having me play the chords with my left hand and the melody with my right hand. He's having me try a lot of different ways to voice the chords, which is confusing for me because I can never decide which to use. He keeps saying that it just depends on the context and style - which I'm sure is true - but what kind of context and style is it when you're just learning jazz?

[thalbergmad]

I am sure many students like yourself are faced with the same problem. You go from the classical world where everything is written down to the jazz world where it is not and you are faced with the unusual problem of choice.

When i started learning chord melody on my banjo, i had the same difficulty as there seemed to be almost an unlimited amount of ways of playing the same chord or variations thereof. I had 7ths, 9ths, 13ths, diminished augmented, passing and god knows what else.

It is a bit like learning a new language, but in time you will choose your chords as easily as you choose your next words.

Thal

[falala]

Actually, he's having me play the chords with my left hand and the melody with my right hand. He's having me try a lot of different ways to voice the chords, which is confusing for me because I can never decide which to use. He keeps saying that it just depends on the context and style - which I'm sure is true - but what kind of context and style is it when you're just learning jazz?

Well you tell me...

What led you to want to learn to play jazz in the first place? You must have heard some music you liked, and felt like you wanted to reproduce something in at least that general ballpark, on the piano. What music was it? What kind of jazz do you want to be able to play? What kind of jazz do you LIKE?

In my experience as a teacher, it's the students who had some answers to these questions - who had a desire for and curiosity about a certain kind of sound and style - who made the most progress.

I'm not trying to be obstructive but the fact is that choices of which voicing to use DO come down to what kind of style and sound you are trying to create. There are voicings that sound like Count Basie, voicings that sound like Bill Evans, and voicings that sound like McCoy Tyner. Using the wrong voicing for the context will sound wrong, even though in the right context it would sound right.

There are however some general technical factors that are common to most styles, and clearly in the early stages these need to be covered. They can basically be summarised in three areas: chord sonority; root progression; and voice leading.

What we've been discussing so far is basically chord sonority: what approaches to voicing a chord sound OK and why. We're talking about chords in isolation, not how they lead to each other. So your first lesson there is that for a 7th chord, you really need to play the 3rd and 7th (or at least if you don't, you fundamentally alter the identity of the chord). You don't NEED to play the 5th, or the root (depending on context and whether someone else is playing it).

But you've then got an artistic decision to make about whether you're aiming for a 2-note, 3-note or 4-note sound. Obviously just 2 notes is very thin. 3 note chords are generally more sonorous and easy on the ear. 4 notes nice and chunky.

I'm also curious about how the scheme you're referring to pans out when you DO change chords. Say you start a song with a C7 chord and voice it C-E-Bb (bottom up) in the LH. When the next chord symbol says F7, what do you do? What you've described suggests F-A-Eb (bottom up), but then you're just sticking unconnected root position chords around and not voice leading at all. So what do you do?

[creationrage]

I came from a classical background and went into jazz almost 20 years ago. Recently I made a jazz-tinged version of Chopin's Nocturne Op 9 No 2 with chords in a few different contexts which may give you an idea of some of the sounds you can get from different chord voicings (there is a midi keyboard displayed above and annotations for the chords). I use mostly chords of the Bill Evans lineage (as is the most common modern-type sound these days), but I would recommend listening to Count Basie, McCoy Tyner, etc to hear what you really want. You need to master whatever voicings you end up using before you can use them in an improvisational setting, so I'd practice them exactly as if they were fully notated, then they will naturally come out once mastered. You can't expect them to come out without mastering them.

[bronnestam]

https://www.pianochord.com/

Best resoruce I've found so far on Internet about different chords.

[chopinlover01]

As for which chords to pick, the way I usually do it is to play whichever version is closest to what I'm currently playing. So, lets say I'm playing a 12 bar blues, and I'm going from F7-B flat7-C7 (not the actual blues progression, but it's the only three chords you play, given the key is F), and I was playing a melody in the right hand, I'd likely do this.
F7/E flat (E flat, F, A, C)-B flat 7/D (D, F, A flat, B flat)- C7/E (E, G, B flat, C).