Sliding on the Piano Bench

[timothy42b]

This is another of those newby questions.

I find it awkward to move both hands over to play something 8 va, because my left arm runs into my body, or my torso rotates and then my right hand is off the keyboard. 

Last night the teacher asked why I didn't just scoot over on the bench.  Well, duh;  the answer is a) I never thought of it, b) I'd have to loosen my seat belt <humor>, and c) I don't have a bench at home, I play in an office chair.  A nice comfortable one I can adjust just right. 

So, do I need to buy a bench?  and practicing sliding around on it?  This never occurred to me before. 

[faulty_damper]

You could...
1) play only Bach, Mozart, Haydn, and some of Beethoven's early pieces
2) pretend to be Glenn Gould
4) get an office chair with wheels
or
3) get a bench

And no, you would not need to practice sliding around on the bench but you might need practice with rolling the chair since it will have wheels.

[galonia]

You are probably sitting too close to the piano if your torso gets in the way of your arms.

See:
https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5720.0.html

[mound]

I use an office chair as well, only because I practice in home-studio type setting where I want to swivel around to the laptop/mixer and other such recording devices when I'm pretending to be a rock-star ;-)

Try though, while you are actually practicing piano, to pretend the chair is a bench.. Put your butt on the front edge of it, don't slink back and fully support your back with it, as that's not good piano posture.  Try not to roll side to side either, make sure you're sitting at the right distance from the keyboard (extend your arms out, your knuckles should be about even with the back side of the keys).

[xvimbi]

I use an office chair as well, only because I practice in home-studio type setting where I want to swivel around to the laptop/mixer and other such recording devices when I'm pretending to be a rock-star ;-)

Try though, while you are actually practicing piano, to pretend the chair is a bench.. Put your butt on the front edge of it, don't slink back and fully support your back with it, as that's not good piano posture.  Try not to roll side to side either, make sure you're sitting at the right distance from the keyboard (extend your arms out, your knuckles should be about even with the back side of the keys).

Barring special circumstances, I would strongly advise against any kind of chair with a back for playing the piano (some people would go as far as not having any chairs with a back, period). Backs are OK if one uses them to guide the spine, but not if one uses them to stabilize the spine or even force it into a certain shape. Sitting in a chair with a back is too tempting, as one starts to use the back as a support, thus forming bad habits and setting oneself up for back problems. There is a reason why piano benches do not have backs.

Sliding forward, so that the legs are completely free and not necessary to stabilize the torso is very important for piano playing. Office chairs are not good for this, because they are not level. There is a reason why piano benches are level.

Finally, the bench must be rock solid. No wiggling, rotating or swiveling. Otherwise, one ends up having to use a lot of muscle action to overcome this in order to get the body into a certain stable position to play something. There is a reason why piano benches are rock-solid.

I'm sure you all know about this, and you just use an office chair out of convenience. I thought I would mention this anyway.

[Rockitman]

Tell that to Radu Lupu.  He requires a chair with a back in his performances.   I think he has bad back issues.  I've only seen maybe a dozen concert pianists in  my time, but I have to say, he looked the most relaxed of the bunch.  His technique also seemed effortless.  If I could only tinkle the keys like him. 

[mound]

everything xvimbi said is true.. when I said:

Put your butt on the front edge of it, don't slink back and fully support your back with it, as that's not good piano posture.  Try not to roll side to side either

I should have simply said "don't support your back with it"..  I sit right on the front edge of it, with the wheels and swivel mechanism locked, so when I'm practicing, it does in fact feel like a bench..  I spent much time at the OfficeMax trying chairs out until I found one that would allow me to sit as if I were on a bench, but still be able to easilly swivel around when I needed to (I have extremely limited space)

but he's right.. a bench is most appropriate.

-paul

[xvimbi]

Tell that to Radu Lupu.  He requires a chair with a back in his performances. 

That's why I said "Barring special circumstances...".

However, the fact that some famous pianist does something a certain way does not mean it's good, healthy or useful. Look at Gould, Schumann, Fleischer, Rachmaninoff, etc. Try to imitate them in creating the sound (if you like that), but never try to imitate somebody's posture or technique without critically evaluating it first.

[jlh]

No, you don't NEED to buy a bench, provided the chair is the right height and you sit on the front edge of it (thus avoiding the temptation to sit against the back).  I use a chair frequently when I practice at school because the bench is too high for me in some of the practice rooms.

The proper way to play on higher or lower parts of the keyboard is to pivot your torso left or right (don't twist), so that your butt pretty much stays planted.  Sliding on a bench is distracting -- especially if, in the piece you're playing, you switch back and forth from 8va frequently.  Then there's the issue of staying oriented on the pedals... Simply stated, if your left arm is running into your body, move your body out of the way, but keep it parallel to the keys.

This is one technique solved by playing scales and arpeggios -- since, in playing them over 4 octaves, you learn how to keep a neutral posture while allowing your hands to play higher and lower.

[timothy42b]

This is one technique solved by playing scales and arpeggios -- since, in playing them over 4 octaves, you learn how to keep a neutral posture while allowing your hands to play higher and lower.

Yes, exactly, that's why I find the scales so hard, because I haven't figured out how to do this.  It reminds me of learning to skate.  It looks so easy to cross the foot over and set it down, until you try it and realize your body is in the way. 

[mound]

Ask your teacher to check your posture and distance from the piano.. You should be able to pivot your torso without moving your butt in order to play scales HT from the lowest octave to the hightest.. Of course I'm assuming your an averaged height adult?

Picture one of those japaneese tea ceremonies where the woman originates every motion from her abdomen - picking up a cup with both hands, rotating side to side.. that's the kind of movement you are afer.

[timothy42b]

Ask your teacher to check your posture and distance from the piano.. You should be able to pivot your torso without moving your butt in order to play scales HT from the lowest octave to the hightest.. Of course I'm assuming your an averaged height adult?

Picture one of those japaneese tea ceremonies where the woman originates every motion from her abdomen - picking up a cup with both hands, rotating side to side.. that's the kind of movement you are afer.

Thanks.  The thing that confuses me, is do you pivot or lean?  The tea server keeps hips and shoulders fixed, and rotates around a verticle axis, but does not lean and does not rotate her shoulders relative to her hips.  The piano player cannot keep hips and shoulders parallel and still rotate, unless he uses a swivel chair.  He can rotate shoulders relative to hips, which is what I think you are recommending;  or he can maintain shoulders square to the keyboard and lean the torso left or right.  Or both, nothing rules that out. 

Yeah, I'm being too nitpicky, and some of this will work itself out as I play more scales across the keyboard.  But if there's a preferred method I'd be interested. 

[xvimbi]

Thanks.  The thing that confuses me, is do you pivot or lean?  The tea server keeps hips and shoulders fixed, and rotates around a verticle axis, but does not lean and does not rotate her shoulders relative to her hips.  The piano player cannot keep hips and shoulders parallel and still rotate, unless he uses a swivel chair.  He can rotate shoulders relative to hips, which is what I think you are recommending;  or he can maintain shoulders square to the keyboard and lean the torso left or right.  Or both, nothing rules that out. 

Yeah, I'm being too nitpicky, and some of this will work itself out as I play more scales across the keyboard.  But if there's a preferred method I'd be interested. 

There seems to be a mix-up of therms: When you lean to the left or right, your spine actually pivots around the area where it meats the "sitting bones", i.e you are pivoting around the center point of your sitting surface. Keep the spine extended, i.e. do not bend the spine to lean. This is best achieved if you "lead with your head". Body motions are best initiated with the head; let the spine follow. When you lean, you don't usually lower your head. If you think about it this way, your spine will be fine (that rhymes!).

In practice, you will also rotate somewhat around a vertical axis running through your spine. Don't think too hard about this, the right movement will come naturally, as long as you lead with your head (balanced on top of the spine).

Keep in mind that you may need to extend one of your legs to counterbalance a leaning motion if you have to reach the extremes of the keybord. That's why it is so eminently important to sit in a way that your legs are completely free and are not involved in supporting your torso in any way. Only then can you use them to stabilize your leaning without compromising your sitting in general.

[mound]

This is best achieved if you "lead with your head". Body motions are best initiated with the head; let the spine follow.

I disagree with that statement. Check out this thread:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2814.msg25305.html#msg25305