Would weightlifting affect my playing?

[bejarinski]

Hi there everyone.
Well, that is my question.

Every day I practice until 7pm, then I go and lift some heavy weights. My hands are way too rigid after that, and I often wonder if doing so would affect my technique in the long term. What do you guys think?

Well, thank you very much.

[diomedes]

Absolutely no correlation. Do what you believe suits you without worrying about that. Quite a few years back my routine was practice, read, practice get to gym and then practice, a Daily routine.

[1piano4joe]

Hi bejarinski,

Yes, weight lifting will affect your playing. In addition, it will affect your technique in the long term.

Do you have your piano tuned? Yes, of course you do. And that's not really your instrument though, is it? You are!

Maintaining your health, will affect ALL aspects of your life positively, absolutely for the better. Exercise is always good. Did you ever hear a doctor or anybody, anyplace, anywhere, anytime ever tell you differently?

High blood pressure, diabetes, bad/high cholesterol and other problems arise from being overweight. If you don't feel well that might affect your playing negatively.

I would say NOT lifting weights would be more likely to affect your playing negatively unless you did some other form of exercise like jogging, calisthenics, yoga, martial arts, biking, swimming, etc.

I'm always amazed how some people take better care of their automobiles than their own body. This just has never made any sense to me at all. Is it because if they don't take care of their car it will break down?

Yeah, well, one can always buy another car provided one has the money but your body is your body. It's the only one you got and you had better take good care of it or else it will break down just like your car.

How well do you think someone who is depressed and tired would play? Weight lifting keeps men's testosterone levels up and helps ward off coronary artery disease, hair loss, loss of muscle mass and strength. Strength training helps keep up your bone density. I'm pretty sure a bone fracture in your wrist will affect your playing.

Weight lifting will add years to your life. Did you ever hear of Jack Lalanne? He lived to 96 years of age.

Weight lifting keeps your metabolism up and keeps you from getting into a funky mood all the time. If your head is cloudy and/or your confused, and your losing focus this will affect your playing.

I'm just saying, Joe.

P.S. Welcome to Pianostreet!

[ted]

I have done resistance training for decades with weights, bullworkers, expanders and similar. My piano playing has never been worsened by it, in fact I have an idea it has been improved. Occasionally the nerves in my hands have been mildly and temporarily affected by gripping, but nothing that wearing thick gloves cannot prevent. You are much more likely to injure your mechanism by playing and practising in faulty ways than through resistance training.

At sixty-seven, looking around at the terrible consequences of not exercising, in my contemporaries, and sadly in very many younger people, I am very glad I have always been physically active. It is even more important as we get older.

[stevensk]

I would not recommend weightlifting.

[bronnestam]

I know a concert pianist who trains hockey and goes to the gym a couple of times a week, and he is just playing better and better. (Even though we, his fans, are screaming "PLEASE TAKE CARE OF YOUR HANDS!!" in fear.) He is 46.

Myself, I got a bad knee injury last year, or rather a severe attack of athrosis. You would not think this would affect my playing, I mean, you don't exactly play with you left knee, right? Well, it put me completely out of the game for a long while. I could not sit properly at the piano. Finally I found a twisted position where I got support for my bad leg - thank God I have a baby grand and not an upright, so that I got some extra space under the keyboard. Besides, the pain of course affected my mood and my concentration severely.

So - do anything that makes you feel good, take care of your body. I am sure the weight lifting will not harm your playing, rather the opposite. Just make sure that you don't get any injuries while you work out with the weights, that is, don't exaggerate. I love to go to the gym but I stay in the safe zone, I always use light weights. (I am also a woman, we prefer many repetitions with low impact, rather than the opposite.) I believe that injuries, due to muscle stress, is what hinders your progress more than anything. So, if you want to improve both your piano playing AND your weight lifting results, don't push yourself too hard.

[pianist1976]

I sum to the other fellows opinions: you can do weight lifting and that wouldn't affect negatively your playing, indeed it would be beneficial, assuming you are doing it in a sensible and progressive way and stretching before and after the exercise. But I would do it on alternate days, not every day, giving the muscle enough time to rest and grow. Maybe it also would be good to combine this anaerobic exercise with some aerobics (jogging for example).

[stoat_king]

I am a little surprised that the inhabitants of these forums seem to be encouraging you to somehow bench-press the piano after you have finished playing it.
Madness! That said, its the kind of lunacy I would pay a lot of money to see lol.

You would gain a number of advantages if you became known for doing this at the end of each performance - for a start any criticism would be muted.
The critics would be justifiably scared that you might twist them into a pretzel with your super-strength.

[bwv999]

Tzimon Barto could do this. He's a body builder and widely recognised concert pianist. 

[timothy42b]

 (I am also a woman, we prefer many repetitions with low impact, rather than the opposite.) I believe that injuries, due to muscle stress, is what hinders your progress more than anything.

This is true, that women prefer this approach.

But that doesn't mean it's a good idea.  Mostly, it's a terrible idea based on complete misunderstanding of physical training by personal trainers.

ted said:

You are much more likely to injure your mechanism by playing and practising in faulty ways than through resistance training

.
and I agree with that.  Most musicians get injured - really, most of them do, especially pianists - and it's not from brief intense exertion.  It's from the cumulative trauma of many thousands of very low force repetitions. 

It follows that we should avoid the same mistake in our strength workouts.

But millions of women have been told that to avoid getting big ugly muscles they must lift only light weights for very high repetitions.  They have been told this by trainers and coaches who should know better. 

Women (with rare exceptions) will never get big muscles regardless of workout strategy, for a very good reason: their testerone levels do not support sufficient protein within muscle cells.

High repetition exercise is inherently injury producing for two reasons:  the number of repetitions themselves, and the inevitable break of form due to fatigue.  It is inherently inefficient because it takes too long.

Do yourself a favor.  Drop any exercises with more than 10 reps, increase the weight until 10 reps is your limit.   

[gr8ape]

Unless you are doing deadlifts with 500+ pounds..... no

[timothy42b]

You can disagree, but you have to do better than "no." 

[bronnestam]

But millions of women have been told that to avoid getting big ugly muscles they must lift only light weights for very high repetitions.  They have been told this by trainers and coaches who should know better. 

And who said I do many reps because I think I would get "big, ugly" muscles otherwise?
First, I have been doing this since I was about 25, and now I'm almost 49. I think I know what I'm doing. I have never got injuries in the gym.
Second, when I say "many reps" I mean about 10. Or 15, at its very maximum. The advantage of less weight and more reps is that yet another little repetition will not be that dramatic. In that way, it is far safer. But of course this approach assumes that you observe your body very carefully (and don't give a **** about what the guy next to you is doing).

I have been injured in piano playing, though. But there we don't talk about doing 10 or 15 reps, but thousands of them, every week. Injuries typically occur when you concentrate too hard on hitting the right keys or something that is NOT related to how your body feels. You get tense and you don't realize what your are doing to your body until it's too late.

[thalbergmad]

Unless you are doing deadlifts with 500+ pounds..... no

Not for a few years. 660 was me best.

Weightlifting i would expect is fine for pianists but perhaps powerlifting would not be.

Thal

[indianajo]

I joined the gym last winter for a year, due to knee spurs that prevented me from doing my aerobic exercise on a staionary bicycle.  One thing those hulking coaches down at the gym never mention, was the stretching that is necessary to re-lengthen the muscles after the weight lifting.  I've learned the stretches in factory ergonomics training, besides the ones built into the US Army daily dozen used since WW I.  I do them before weightlifting, but nobody else down there does, and coach said those were "stupid waste of time". 
I would imagine that I, at age 63, could have run rings around those gym coaches with their mega muscles.  For certain, my younger relative, who grew up a karate/martial arts fan, who could do 100 pushup, failed the US Army physical training test in the ROTC camp.  He was not flexible enough to run the two mile test fast enough.  Nor could he regain his flexibility in the 6 weeks duration of the camp.
Those gym coaches were promoting maximum weight for 5 to 8 reps, then a rest, then maximem weight again for 5 or 8 more reps.  this apparently builds the maximum muscle mass.  I doesn't do a **** thing for the heart, IMHO.  I commenced my own training program of donig 25 reps on all the machines, only as much weight as I could do that many reps of.  I eventually built up to 30 reps, and 150 on the rowing machine to extend my heart rate >130 over 25 minutes.  Read Dr Cooper's Aerobics about the benefits of aerobic exercise.  At age 64, my heart and lungs are in great shape despite hereditary high blood pressure and type II diabetes commencing in my late fifties.  My chloresterol and trigliceride numbers are down below norms, too.  I did get stronger arms chest and back at the gym, eventually building up my arm muscles enough where I could crank an arm machine for 25 minutes with heart rate of 120-150.  When I first joined the gym, my arm muscles weren't big enough to run my heart over 110, since I bicycle all warm months.  
As far as building visible muscles, look on the internet for muscled women.  They can build as much muscle as they want, it has got nothing to do with hormones.  I've built some significant muscles since joining, and at my age the pain in my joints is proof positive that my testosterone is the normal half or third the level it was in my twenties.  BTW I don't find healthy women unattracitve even if they are stronger or taller or bigger in hips  chest orms or legs than I am.  Relationships are not wrestling contests and knowing somebody stronger than me would be an advantage in many life situations, like moving pianos.  I'm not very big, and am built more like a native long distance runner than a weightlifter, but I do lift weights and do resistance bands to be all I can be.  
So anyway, as a pianist, do the stretches in the ergonomics text at different times from your weight workouts.  Particularly the wrist bendback ones, and the finger limber exercises, recommended for factory workers.  
One recently learned tip, for allmy weightlifting I tore a rotator cuff two years ago helping a relative move.  I did not jerk anything and only slid the hidabed around, I didn't lift it.  The pilates arm exercises I learned on Body Electric, nor anything I did at the gym, did not build up my rotator cuff sufficiently. After 20 months of trying to heal on my own, I visited the orthopedic surgeon last month.  The exercises to build a rotator cuff use resistance bands and are not like anything I have seen anywhere else.  I'm doing them on both sides now, so I can maybe build up the untorn rotator cuff, in addition to the torn one.  They are both equally weak, despite my other weight training - I'm on the yellow band now, the weakest one, and after 10 days am just building up to the required 20 reps.  So look those exercises up, torn rotator cuffs are a serious problem in people that move pianos or anything similar.    

[timothy42b]

As far as building visible muscles, look on the internet for muscled women.  They can build as much muscle as they want, it has got nothing to do with hormones.  

OMG.  Just, OMG.

[timothy42b]

And who said I do many reps because I think I would get "big, ugly" muscles otherwise?

Nobody.  I said women's personal trainers keep pushing that myth, because "women need toning, not big muscles."  Have you really never heard anybody say that?  Been to a gym much?

If you are doing 10 reps with heavy weight then you're doing fine.  If you're doing 10 reps with 1 pound dumbbells, as I see often, then you've missed the point of 10 reps.  But 10 reps is not a high rep count.

Statistically more people get hurt on high rep low intensity exercises.  Heavy singles (meaning a weight so heavy you can only lift it once) seem scarey but are actually safe, assuming some warmup and proper form. 

[gr8ape]

Not for a few years. 660 was me best.

Weightlifting i would expect is fine for pianists but perhaps powerlifting would not be.

Thal

16k posts and 660 deadlift

surely you a member of bodybuilding.com? haha

[thalbergmad]

I am a member of knackeredknees.com.

Thal

[gr8ape]

Do you feel weightlifting has affected your touch thalberg?

[falala]

On the bright side: Pump enough iron and when you start gigging as a concert pianist, you'll be able to carry your own 9' Steinway around from venue to venue.

[falala]

.

[thalbergmad]

Do you feel weightlifting has affected your touch thalberg?

I think it did at the time i was powerlifting, but not now.

Thak

[lonelagranger]

Van Cliburn lifted weights to help keep himself in shape.  It didn't seem to hurt his playing.

[kitty on the keys]

Yes.....and for the better. I go to a gym where there are many pianists and members of the symphony. Weightlifting or working with machines along with piano playing have a common element.....form.....if your hand position is poor so is your playing.....if your exercise form is not balanced....you risk injury. Go to the gym!

Kitty on the Keys

[stevensk]

If you dont care about rigid hands, worn leads and you dont intend to play advanced piano music, go for it!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Don't listen to them weight lifting won't mess with your technique.  You'll get callused hands but that has nothing to do with playing.

[timothy42b]

I've used standard work gloves and prevented calluses. 

[chopinlover01]

Staying in shape is never a bad idea. I'm a naturally small person though (around 5'4-5'5 at age 14), and have little muscle mass, so martial arts has been a better outlet for me. Martial arts also builds muscle mass through reps of whatever techniques you're drilling (as long as it's high intensity; i.e., no aikido or Tai Chi for the most part). I knew a Muay Thai (Thai Boxing) guy who was of small stature, but through all his training (granted, resistance training is a small part of MT) he could do 230 benchpress.
He was 5'2.
And 165 pounds. I have no #$%&$*ing clue how he did it. But he did.

[cuberdrift]

Does basketball hurt your hands?

Some people tell me so! I met someone who was into this sport, and although he doesn't really play piano, he tells me that it might have a negative effect on piano playing. Also, my friend's teacher tells him not to play basketball.

What do you think?

[pianoplunker]

Hi there everyone.
Well, that is my question.

Every day I practice until 7pm, then I go and lift some heavy weights. My hands are way too rigid after that, and I often wonder if doing so would affect my technique in the long term. What do you guys think?

Well, thank you very much.

As long as you use proper wrist support/technique for weight lifting so you dont hurt your wrists, it shouldnt be a problem for piano.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Does basketball hurt your hands?

Some people tell me so! I met someone who was into this sport, and although he doesn't really play piano, he tells me that it might have a negative effect on piano playing. Also, my friend's teacher tells him not to play basketball.

What do you think?

I played basketball since I was four and competitively throughout highschool.  I broke my middle finger twice and my pinky once and it hasn't affected my playing one bit.

Additionally I jammed my right thumb like two nights before I did my high school senior recital and played with tape over it just fine.

Stop worrying about your hands guys, as long as you don't do anything really bad like get carpal tunnel or whatever you're fine.

[bernadette60614]

I've been lifting for years...and started long before it became acceptable/encouraged among women.  If anything, I think is has made my playing better because I am able to practice and concentrate longer because my body is so strong. It takes more effort, IMHO, to have good posture at the piano if your body is weaker. Not that it can't be done (Horowitz was hardly a muscleman), but I think that if you are stronger you do, overall, have more stamina.

That being said, I do see dedicated male lifters at the gym who have to turn their entire bodies to move their arms (okay, I'm exaggerating, but most of us who weight train have seen those guys.) They look terrific at competitive bodybuilding events but that extreme musculature has been developed at the cost of flexibility.

[thalbergmad]

They look terrific at competitive bodybuilding events but that extreme musculature has been developed at the cost of flexibility.

And probably at the cost of their health.

Thal

[timothy42b]

And probably at the cost of their health.

Thal

Particularly if some performance enhancing compounds have been used to assist. 

But really, short of taking massive doses of steroids, most of us don't have to worry about gaining that kind of muscle.  Our genetics simply won't support it no matter how hard we work.

[nick]

There was a write up about 35 yrs ago of a concert pianist coming to town, with pics of him at the piano before the Concerto concert scheduled the following day. Shows him with massive bicepts, like a bodybuilder. He weight trained most days, and his playing was great.

Nick