How to read mordents?

[bejarinski]

Hey, guys!

I don't know how to read mordents. Apparently, you are supposed to read them like this:



But it is exactly like that? I mean, those two additional notes fall in the pulse, or it is like an appoggiatura?

This is why I'm asking.



That is "Minuetto, Op.14" by Busoni. There's a midi version of the piece in youtube where that mordent sounds like appoggiatura.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24fFOABtHHE

Well, thanks!!

[chopinlover01]

No ornamentation should be played strictly in time- then it sounds like it's a series of notes versus an embellishment.
Play both with and without mordents, it'll sound more of an embellishment if you can think of it that way.

[iansinclair]

No ornamentation should be played strictly in time- then it sounds like it's a series of notes versus an embellishment.
Play both with and without mordents, it'll sound more of an embellishment if you can think of it that way.

Um.  Well, I beg to differ -- at least in the Bach and Frescobaldi and Pachelbel I used to play on the organ, I felt it was best to have them strictly in time.  But -- I also expect that it is at least partly a matter of taste, and certainly a matter of style; in romantic music -- say Chopin -- I play ornaments very freely...

[faulty_damper]

The top picture, first execution is incorrect.
Mordents start on the auxiliary note: D-C-D-C

2nd execution is correct.

[chopinlover01]

Um.  Well, I beg to differ -- at least in the Bach and Frescobaldi and Pachelbel I used to play on the organ, I felt it was best to have them strictly in time.  But -- I also expect that it is at least partly a matter of taste, and certainly a matter of style; in romantic music -- say Chopin -- I play ornaments very freely...

I would have to disagree. Bach was very capable of writing out the notes if he wanted to; ornaments shouldn't have to be taken literally at all times. It was also common baroque practice to insert ornaments and embellishments where the performer sees fit.

[j_menz]

The top picture, first execution is incorrect.
Mordents start on the auxiliary note: D-C-D-C

True (often) in the baroque. Not true for classical and later, where the shown execution is correct.

I would have to disagree. Bach was very capable of writing out the notes if he wanted to; ornaments shouldn't have to be taken literally at all times. It was also common baroque practice to insert ornaments and embellishments where the performer sees fit.

The type of ornament and the insertion of additional ornamentation may be varied, but baroque ornaments should be timed (played in divisions of the metre). Classical and later are rather less at the discretion of the performer as regards placement and type, but are generally untimed (free).

[bejarinski]

I get it. Thanks a lot everybody!