Playing fast after playing slow

[araconan]

So what I've noticed with my practicing is that after say half an hour of practicing a fast piece, I can play it relaxed and rather effortlessly, but after I drop it for a few days to practice a slow piece instead, when I come back to it, my arm's all tense when I play, I can't play as fast, and I need an hour or so before I feel comfortable again.

Is this normal? Any advice for countering it?

[yadeehoo]

Try play the fast piece slower see what it does..

[araconan]

Try play the fast piece slower see what it does..

As much as I appreciate the answer, it was quite unhelpful. If I was already able to play the piece before at full speed without any problems, I don't think my problems was technical issues within either the fast or slow piece in itself. As in, because I also had slight trouble adjusting to the slow piece after practicing for the fast piece, I can't really play the "slow piece" any slower.

Anyways, just in case any one else had this problem, the issue in the end was I wasn't adjusting my posture. As it turns out, I'm constantly subconsciously changing my posture to make playing easier when playing the fast piece, and changing back to other postures when playing the slow piece. If given time to play (say half an hour), I'd slowly change back and forth without realizing it. But because I didn't do it consciously, playing the fast piece while still in the postures for the slow piece caused tension/ineffective playing.

[yadeehoo]

You seem fine and pretty self aware. What piece are you working on?

[araconan]

You seem fine and pretty self aware. What piece are you working on?

Thanks for the compliment I'm currently working on Chopin's Ballade no. 1 and the 10/12 etude. The ballade requires a delicate left hand, so I tend sit further away from the piano so there's less weight applied in each note. Understandably, the same posture makes playing the left hand in 10/12 a lot harder than it needs to be.

[yadeehoo]

You're getting there.

I'm working on 10/12 etude too, it was actully the 3rd song I learnt, I use it a lot now to warm up my left hand. Chopin is great, it gives great freedom from technique.

There are so pieces I can only play fast and not slow. It's kind of a problem cause it's good to be comfortable at all tempos. I figured I'm able to practice much slower now that before. Practicing slow is actually very hard bro

[faulty_damper]

It sounds like you are using a lot of finger action with co-contraction which taxes the muscles excessively causing strain.  More efficient movement patterns should quickly clear up this issue.

[chopinlover01]

It sounds like you are using a lot of finger action with co-contraction which taxes the muscles excessively causing strain.  More efficient movement patterns should quickly clear up this issue.

Language that actually sounds like English should also quickly explain it..

[lostinidlewonder]

....I drop it for a few days .....when I come back to it, my arm's all tense when I play....I need an hour or so before I feel comfortable again.

Is this normal? Any advice for countering it?

Yes it is normal, if you drop it for a few days that is your problem. There is "post practice improvement" but really if you leave it too long before you play the piece again you often will need to do repair work.

[faulty_damper]

Yes it is normal, if you drop it for a few days that is your problem. There is "post practice improvement" but really if you leave it too long before you play the piece again you often will need to do repair work.

That's not what post-practice improvement means.  PPI is memory consolidation.  What the OP is describing is muscular tension due to co-contraction which means muscle coordination is unstable as he changes different repertoire.

[lostinidlewonder]

That's not what post-practice improvement means.  PPI is memory consolidation.

It is that and of course more.

[araconan]

It sounds like you are using a lot of finger action with co-contraction which taxes the muscles excessively causing strain.  More efficient movement patterns should quickly clear up this issue.

Do you have any suggestions on how I can go about identifying where I'm using co-contraction the most? And on how to develop more efficient movement patterns? (I'm practicing without a teacher)

[faulty_damper]

Do you have any suggestions on how I can go about identifying where I'm using co-contraction the most? And on how to develop more efficient movement patterns? (I'm practicing without a teacher)

Piano-playing should not be a finger-intensive activity. Efficient technique require interconnected movements of the entire playing apparatus.  I wish this were easier to describe but it isn't.  It's probably the biggest source of misunderstanding and confusion when we start talking about it.

The co-contraction you're experiencing probably doesn't feel like it's causing tension, but it is.



Relax the hand.  Form your hand into the letter "A".  There is co-contraction of the fingers, preventing them from curling into the palm.  Does it feel tense?  No, it doesn't.  But if you played the piano with this co-contraction, you'll inevitably tense up.

Now try the letter "C".  Still relaxed.  There is co-contraction of the fingers and thumb to hold that position.  Does it feel tense?  No, it doesn't, but that co-contraction will eventually lead to fatigue.  If you pay very close attention to the muscular activity, and can identify it, then this sensation of co-contraction is wrong when playing the piano.

Try "E" as relaxed as possible.  There should be noticeable co-contraction of the fingers and thumb.  That sensation should be registered in your mind as 'wrong'.  If you ever feel this sensation when you're playing the piano, you're doing it wrong.

Try "Y".  Feel the co-contraction of the 5 finger as it is held straight out.  This sensation is necessary when opening the hand to play large intervals (e.g. octaves).  However, that tension must release as soon as possible; it should never be held.  Otherwise, register that sensation as 'wrong'.

Try "P".  The 2 finger is co-contracted, as are the other fingers.  I'm using this letter to highlight a movement that is not often used by most pianists, the angle and movement of the wrist.  Pay attention to what your wrist is doing, or not doing, as you play. If the wrist is stiff, co-contraction is occurring. Register this sensation as 'wrong'.  In order to interconnect the fingers as it depresses the keys, the wrist is always in fluid motion.

The main point of this exercise is 1) to become acutely aware of when co-contraction is occurring, and 2) realize that co-contraction doesn't feel wrong, but natural in day to day activities, except when playing the piano.

Try it out, then play the piano with careful attention to the tension in your playing apparatus.  When you identify them, change your movements until you find the one(s) that are easiest on your body.  It's 'wrong' if you feel it, right when you don't.

[araconan]

Piano-playing should not be a finger-intensive activity. Efficient technique require interconnected movements of the entire playing apparatus.  I wish this were easier to describe but it isn't.  It's probably the biggest source of misunderstanding and confusion when we start talking about it.

The co-contraction you're experiencing probably doesn't feel like it's causing tension, but it is.



Relax the hand.  Form your hand into the letter "A".  There is co-contraction of the fingers, preventing them from curling into the palm.  Does it feel tense?  No, it doesn't.  But if you played the piano with this co-contraction, you'll inevitably tense up.

Now try the letter "C".  Still relaxed.  There is co-contraction of the fingers and thumb to hold that position.  Does it feel tense?  No, it doesn't, but that co-contraction will eventually lead to fatigue.  If you pay very close attention to the muscular activity, and can identify it, then this sensation of co-contraction is wrong when playing the piano.

Try "E" as relaxed as possible.  There should be noticeable co-contraction of the fingers and thumb.  That sensation should be registered in your mind as 'wrong'.  If you ever feel this sensation when you're playing the piano, you're doing it wrong.

Try "Y".  Feel the co-contraction of the 5 finger as it is held straight out.  This sensation is necessary when opening the hand to play large intervals (e.g. octaves).  However, that tension must release as soon as possible; it should never be held.  Otherwise, register that sensation as 'wrong'.

Try "P".  The 2 finger is co-contracted, as are the other fingers.  I'm using this letter to highlight a movement that is not often used by most pianists, the angle and movement of the wrist.  Pay attention to what your wrist is doing, or not doing, as you play. If the wrist is stiff, co-contraction is occurring. Register this sensation as 'wrong'.  In order to interconnect the fingers as it depresses the keys, the wrist is always in fluid motion.

The main point of this exercise is 1) to become acutely aware of when co-contraction is occurring, and 2) realize that co-contraction doesn't feel wrong, but natural in day to day activities, except when playing the piano.

Try it out, then play the piano with careful attention to the tension in your playing apparatus.  When you identify them, change your movements until you find the one(s) that are easiest on your body.  It's 'wrong' if you feel it, right when you don't.

Thank you, your graph was incredibly helpful to reference! I've spent the past few days going over from the beginning of 10/12, making sure that every note felt natural, and free of co-contraction. It was also during this process that I noticed that my wrist was not as high as it could be, because the chair that I was using resulted me in sitting quite low on the piano. After getting a new chair so that I sat higher, I felt more of a "natural weight" in my fingers whenever my wrists were relaxed, and then suddenly, it's like the piano's playing itself. I'm playing passages way faster than before, and I don't even feel a thing. It's scary because playing has become EASY. I truly hope this isn't like the piano fairy blessing me with superpowers just for today or anything.

[kawai_cs]

It's scary because playing has become EASY. I truly hope this isn't like the piano fairy blessing me with superpowers just for today or anything.

O my gosh, that is pretty much what I thought to myself just recently, too
I came back to playing the piano just several months ago and have been watching tutorials, masterclasses, etc and experimenting. I have seen and felt noticeable improvement but some days I seem to be back at where I was. Those are rare but they occur Especially when I am stressed out, very tired, feeling down.