Best Chopin etude to start with

[chopincat]

I'm sure this thread has been done a million times, but I'm going to ask anyway. Considering I have played a lot of Chopin in the past but never an etude, where should I start?

Something else to consider: I have pretty small hands (I can reach a ninth, but I sometimes trouble with large chords because my fingers don't spread very far apart from each other)

[kawai_cs]

I do not know where you should start because I don't know what your strong points are.
I can however tell you which Chopin etudes were played first at a music school I attended.
 
The teachers were very strict about Chopin. They would not allow anybody who did not have a good technique to play anything Chopin, not mentioning the etudes. Only  creme de la creme were allowed to play them
Etudes that you would hear most often played there were: op 10 no 12, op 25 no 1 and 25 no 2.
But still - it depends on personal abilities, strengths so they might not necessarily be the "go to first" etudes for you.

[visitor]

B130 no 1 ( in video first till about 2:30ish)

And certainly a better romp in 3 vs 4 than FI...
Scores and audio mp3 to dl
https://imslp.org/wiki/3_Nouvelles_études,_B.130_%28Chopin,_Frédéric%29

[j_menz]

I agree as regards the Trois Nouvelle Etudes.

Otherwise, I still wonder why people don't actually believe Freddy knew what he was doing when he stuck them in the order he did.

[chopinlover01]

The TN etudes are great, though much less well known, if that affect your choice at all.
The first two from Opus 25 aren't too bad, so long as you have a light thumb. The rather famous (or some say, infamous) "wrong note" etude isn't so bad; again, the trouble is being light in the middle section.
@J_menz- I have to disagree; not that he didn't know what he was doing, but that they should study the Etudes in order. There are many etudes that can benefit your technique, but starting with 10/1 and working your way up isn't nessecary if you just want to study one particular technique.

[michael_sayers]

I'm sure this thread has been done a million times, but I'm going to ask anyway. Considering I have played a lot of Chopin in the past but never an etude, where should I start?

Something else to consider: I have pretty small hands (I can reach a ninth, but I sometimes trouble with large chords because my fingers don't spread very far apart from each other)

Hi Chopincat,

I agree with Chopinlover01.  Just start with Op. 10 No. 1 and go from there.  Considering the difficulties, just work first on memorizing the music and enjoy working on it at whatever tempo is manageable, keeping focus on the open hand position emphasis.


Mvh,
Michael

[kawai_cs]

j_menz - I disagree with you. Op 10 no 1  is one of hard etudes to play. It is easy to read but  I would never recommend it for somebody to start with. There are more accessible etudes where there is higher chance that he can actually handle them.

[amytsuda]

Hi Chopincat, I still remember your video of Op 9 No 1 that was beautifully played (sorry I have some wierd musical memory to remember these things). I think you'd pull off Op 10 No 6 or Op 25 No 7 super beautifully. I have small hands but I didn't find my hands were the limitation to play them (even my musicality may limit everything I do). But etudes are also to improve technical abilities. Op 25 No 1 may be a good one actually. Op 10 No 1 is definitely painful for hands like ours, a good challenge though.

[j_menz]

@J_menz- I have to disagree; not that he didn't know what he was doing, but that they should study the Etudes in order. There are many etudes that can benefit your technique, but starting with 10/1 and working your way up isn't nessecary if you just want to study one particular technique.

j_menz - I disagree with you. Op 10 no 1  is one of hard etudes to play. It is easy to read but  I would never recommend it for somebody to start with. There are more accessible etudes where there is higher chance that he can actually handle them.

But is it me that you are disagreeing with, or Chopin himself? Are you suggesting he didn't place them in the order he did for a reason and consciously.

I suppose it depends a little on whether you regard the etudes - particularly the first set (Op 10) as a collection of one offs or as a course of study. It seems to me the latter is the better view, and a certain logic emerges when they are considered in this fashion.

That 10/1 is generally seen as one of the harder ones (as is 10/2, 10/3 would have been had Freddy held his nerve on tempo, 10/4 etc) is not an argument against starting with it. The question is not whether it is harder than some of the others, the question should be if it is foundational to the course.

[kawai_cs]

to j_menz:
Chopin's etudes are not for beginners and neither for intermediate players. They are not meant to build technique (in the meaning of: from scratch) - they actually already require a serious amount of technique on which they are meant to build up.
Chopin only let his most advanced and best students play them.
From my experience, piano teachers do not let their students start Chopin etudes with op 10 no 1. They pick the more accessible ones, ones that build up on some skills and abilities that students already acquired. Does this mean they all disagree with Chopin and question his teaching?
Have you ever played any Chopin etude yourself? If yes, have you started with op 10 no 1?

[j_menz]

to j_menz:
Chopin's etudes are not for beginners and neither for intermediate players. They are not meant to build technique (in the meaning of: from scratch) - they actually already require a serious amount of technique on which they are meant to build up.
Chopin only let his most advanced and best students play them.

Undoubtedly.

From my experience, piano teachers do not let their students start Chopin etudes with op 10 no 1. They pick the more accessible ones, ones that build up on some skills and abilities that students already acquired. Does this mean they all disagree with Chopin and question his teaching?

It seems it does.

Have you ever played any Chopin etude yourself? If yes, have you started with op 10 no 1?

Like most people, I dabbled with them out of order and have done a number of them. I'm currently working through them in a more considered fashion and, yes, in order. It's through that process that I've come to see a certain logic in they way they are set out. I hadn't thought about it before, and I suspect that most others haven't either.

These days, it seems most people do their first Chopin etude as a competition entry, for an exam or for an audition screening, and for that purpose different considerations come into play. But it seems to me that any pianist of (serious) calibre does the lot, and as a learning exercise, not as a "I can play this" exercise. It is in this latter regard that the order Chopin put them in seems to me particularly well thought out.

[kawai_cs]

Ok. And where is the evidence that Chopin put the etudes in the order he meant they were supposed to be practiced and not because he thought they would sound best if played in that order or for other artistic reason?

[lmpianist]

25/2 is probably one of the 3 easiest technically, if not the easiest.  Relatively speaking of course.  Slow practice of the first few lines of RH, gradually increasing in speed, and it will be a domino effect and you'll practically have the whole piece.  At least that's what I remember when I studied it years ago.

I would not suggest starting with 10/1.  The intervals are long regardless of hand size... that's the point I think.  You need to learn how to play it (and practice it... from DAY 1) without stretching and destroying your hand.  Seriously, you can injure yourself if you're not careful.  You will be able to tell very quickly if you're doing it wrong.  It's all about keeping your hand centered on where you need to be, and moving your entire hand accordingly.

10/5 might not be a bad one to look at either, maybe after 25/2.  There are not a lot of difficult reaches. 

10/3 is often suggested as a first choice too.

[chopinlover01]

But, (and, Chopincat, correct me if I'm wrong) our friend doesn't aim to play the entire set right now, does she?
There does seem to be some relationship between the etudes and their order, but since there isn't any clear evidence that has been presented, the order could've just as easily been artistic. Or, (though I highly doubt this one) just the order he wrote them.
One doesn't need to play the Chopin etudes in order to get a lot out of them- studying any etude, even (and some especially) the slower ones (10/6, 25/7, much of 10/3), just as you don't need to study the Liszt Paganini etudes to get something out of them.
I am curious though, to see why he wrote them in the order he did, or if there is more value to doing it that way- perhaps it could make this thread different than the dozen other threads of the Chopin etudes!

[amytsuda]

I am curious though, to see why he wrote them in the order he did, or if there is more value to doing it that way- perhaps it could make this thread different than the dozen other threads of the Chopin etudes!

GREAT QUESTION! I quickly scanned the Op 10, and I wonder if the order is based on the technical reasoning or based on the artistic / compositional reasoning. A great topic of music analysis

[maxy]

Which ones would you like to play? I find that motivation is a huge factor. I had more success with pieces "too hard" that I really wanted to play compared to easier pieces that I did not like.

[j_menz]

Looking at Op 10, they aren't in the order they were written:

Opus 10

1 - 1829
2 - 1829
3 - 1832
4 - 1832
5 - 1830
6 - 1830
7 - 1832
8 - 1829
9 - 1829
10 -  1829
11 - 1829
12 - 1831

As to whether the order is technical or musical is open to evidence.

[chopinlover01]

This article is interesting- https://www.ourchopin.com/analysis/etude.html
The main question in my mind is currently, "why did he organize them as he did, when many of the set have similar difficulties but are spread apart?".
There are many etudes that are alike in purpose in Op. 10- 10/9 deals with the playing of large broken intervals in the LH, and 10/11 does a similar task with both hands. Doesn't it make sense then, that he may have wrote 9 and 11 together, both having being written in 1829?
Similarly, 10/4 and 10/8 have similar difficulties; both have a very fast RH, and passages where the LH joins in on the action.
I'd be very interested to see what others have to say on this.

[lazyfingers]

The best Etude to play is the one you can't do. I mean ... what is the weakness you are trying to address at the moment. Most of us have different weaknesses.

[amytsuda]

I am curious of progression of keys of Op 10. It goes from C Major, A Minor, and sort of develop a major / minor combination with circle of fifth. I am trying to find some common themes or variations or anything like that. Any thought, anyone?

[ewalker1]

I started with op. 10 no 4.
But probably not the best one to recommend.
I'd say start with f minor or c minor from op 10

[j_menz]

I am curious of progression of keys of Op 10. It goes from C Major, A Minor, and sort of develop a major / minor combination with circle of fifth. I am trying to find some common themes or variations or anything like that. Any thought, anyone?

Hmm.... it's actually a little more logical than I'd thought.

1  - C major
2  - A minor (relative minor of 1)
3  - E major
4  - C# minor (relative minor of 3)
5  - Gb major
6  - Eb minor (relative minor of 5)
7  - C major
8  - F major
9  - F minor (relative minor of 10)
10 - Ab major
11 - Eb major
12 - C minor (relative minor of 11)

Still, it's hardly the sort of order one usually sees where such is intended.

Interestingly, if you count the number of accidentals you get 0044 6601 4433, which is George Sand's phone number. 

[visitor]

Hmm.... it's actually a little more logical than I'd thought.

1  - C major
2  - A minor (relative minor of 1)
3  - E major
4  - C# minor (relative minor of 3)
5  - Gb major
6  - Eb minor (relative minor of 5)
7  - C major
8  - F major
9  - F minor (relative minor of 10)
10 - Ab major
11 - Eb major
12 - C minor (relative minor of 11)

Still, it's hardly the sort of order one usually sees where such is intended.

Interestingly, if you count the number of accidentals you get 0044 6601 4433, which is George Sand's phone number. 

i know it's all up for speculation, the equally unsexy possibility exists that the order as presented in published was ultimate decided by-for $$$-- publisher/editor at the time. Wait don't tell me the score's we get are affected by the economics of the deal, surely, not, that never happened. 

*wonders if Durand and company are laughing in the afterlife at how much they have trolled everyone 

[j_menz]

i know it's all up for speculation, the equally unsexy possibility exists that the order as presented in published was ultimate decided by-for $$$-- publisher/editor at the time. Wait don't tell me the score's we get are affected by the economics of the deal, surely, not, that never happened. 

*wonders if Durand and company are laughing in the afterlife at how much they have trolled everyone 

Durand only published the first French edition. Pretty much simultaneous editions were published separately in England and Germany. If these three nations had been so easily and coincidentally able to agree, history would have been a much tamer affair.

[visitor]

Durand only published the first French edition. Pretty much simultaneous editions were published separately in England and Germany. If these three nations had been so easily and coincidentally able to agree, history would have been a much tamer affair.

well said 

[kevonthegreatpianist]

I think you should either start with Tris Novellus Etudes 1,2, or Op.10 No.6

If you're good at polyrythyms:
-Tris Novellus Etudes 1,2

If you're good at six-flat playing:
-Op.10 No.6

[michael_sayers]

I think you should either start with Tris Novellus Etudes 1,2, or Op.10 No.6

If you're good at polyrythyms:
-Tris Novellus Etudes 1,2

If you're good at six-flat playing:
-Op.10 No.6

Hi Kevonthegreatpianist,

The nice thing about the Trois Nouvelles Etudes is that they don't get nearly as much "air time" as the Op. 10 and Op. 25 sets, and tend to be played only by pianists who really appreciate their beauty.

Mvh,
Michael