Editions of Chopin's work

[diomedes]

I'm under the impression that the Paderewski editions are considered authoritative. I typically have been using Henle, and do notice discrepancies between that and others (Mikuli, Kullak etc). Opinions?

[michael_sayers]

I'm under the impression that the Paderewski editions are considered authoritative. I typically have been using Henle, and do notice discrepancies between that and others (Mikuli, Kullak etc). Opinions?

Hi Diomedes,

Best may be the National Edition.

https://www.chopin-nationaledition.com/?lang=en


Mvh,
Michael

[visitor]

really depends on the purpose. For high end competitions, PWM is probably best. I have never thought of Paderewski and all that authoritative (they are definately at the top of flimsly, i honestly believe printing them on lettuce would  yield a more robust and longer lasting score).

If for personal playing and such, you would be best suited to just buy what you can learn and read easier, then cross reference w/ other editions if you  feel something is a miss or you want different insight.

btw, the trashing of Schirmer blindly does dis service to some. Yes there are some awful editions (ie Bach, Mozart, ) but there are some jiggy editors worth seeking out, ie Joseffy for Chopin is pretty legit.

if i were compiling works of Fred I would seek these out as an option ( i have some of the Joseffy, and it's pretty great).  As an alternative you can buy an urtext and also a good edition on the side and write in those editorial markings and fingers, etc you like and choose to include in your interpretation.

[michael_sayers]

Hi Visitor,

Neither Paderewski or Joseffy are accurate.  Joseffy has ff in one of the Chopin Nocturnes, but the autograph manuscript has only f, and there is no source outside of Joseffy for the ff . . . that is just one example . . . for those who want to check up on it, it is the Op. 55 No. 1 Nocturne, and both the Joseffy edition and the autograph are available at I.M.S.L.P. . . .


Mvh,
Michael

[visitor]

Hi Visitor,

Neither Paderewski or Joseffy are accurate.  Joseffy has ff in one of the Chopin Nocturnes, but the autograph manuscript has only f, and there is no source outside of Joseffy for the ff . . . that is just one example . . .


Mvh,
Michael

accurate smaturate.
I said if it is for personal enjoyment, recretational performance (ie recitals etc), then the interpretive additions can be useful. Just because the editorial mark is on the page, doesn't mean one has to take it or play as written, there's this thing in music called interpretation, and the performer has some leeway in that regard. Some editions are just that --a seasoned performer's take on it, and if it sounds good, and i like it and can pull it off while still in line with my own plan for the work, i take, if not, i ignore it. (i write frowny faces in my score all the time to remind me not to go there in the future if it's one of those i am leaving vs taking lol   )

[diomedes]

Interesting. Thanks, if possible i'll consult the National Edition. I don't think it's on imslp at all. On imslp, the one labelled as Institut Fryderyka Chopina is in fact the Paderewski (PWM?) edition, correct?

I've been learning all the Scherzi and Ballades recently using Henle, i'm unsure how i should feel abut that.

Usually i don't take Shirmer too seriously, it's an ok source for opinions. I am looking for something that's no nonsense and factual.

[michael_sayers]

accurate smaturate.
I said if it is for personal enjoyment, recretational performance (ie recitals etc), then the interpretive additions can be useful. Just because the editorial mark is on the page, doesn't mean one has to take it or play as written, there's this thing in music called interpretation, and the performer has some leeway in that regard. Some editions are just that --a seasoned performer's take on it, and if it sounds good, and i like it and can pull it off while still in line with my own plan for the work, i take, if not, i ignore it. (i write frowny faces in my score all the time to remind me not to go there in the future if it's one of those i am leaving vs taking lol   )

Hi Vistor,

I tend to agree - and personally I feel it is fine to play fortissimo in the Chopin Nocturnes .  In our day and age - not Joseffy's or Paderewski's - and when pianists tend to play only what is notated and nothing more, and nothing less, I think it is best to have as truly urtext of an edition as possible.  Otherwise everyone might play ff in that Chopin Nocturne because one pianist [Joseffy] said to do so.


Mvh,
Michael

[michael_sayers]

Interesting. Thanks, if possible i'll consult the National Edition. I don't think it's on imslp at all. On imslp, the one labelled as Institut Fryderyka Chopina is in fact the Paderewski (PWM?) edition, correct?

I've been learning all the Scherzi and Ballades recently using Henle, i'm unsure how i should feel abut that.

Usually i don't take Shirmer too seriously, it's an ok source for opinions. I am looking for something that's no nonsense and factual.

Hi Diomedes,

I learned Chopin as a child from the Paderewski editions, which I think were indicated as Institut Fryderyka Chopin.  I moved to Sweden several years ago and I didn't take my music library with me, so I can't easily check on this.

If I were to buy editions of Chopin today, I would start first with considering the National Edition.  I haven't actually checked up on any of it vs. the various sources to see what I personally think about the editorial decisions.  But it does seem to be the latest in scholarship, and to be cutting edge.  I would check out an edition from a library, or borrow a copy from a friend, first before buying one myself.

It is always good to think critically about any edition because someone is making decisions for you the pianist, and sometimes one decision can significantly alter the character of a composition as with the E-flat vs. E-natural controversy regarding the Chopin C Minor Prelude.

Paderewski and many (most?) other editions have the E-flat, but the Chopin autograph, Rachmaninoff and Busoni all give the repeated E-natural.


Mvh,
Michael