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Topic: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1  (Read 3256 times)

Offline alon_hd

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Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
on: June 16, 2015, 03:49:31 PM
Hi everybody,
im currently practicing the Chopin etude op 10 no 1,
and i feel kind of stuck.
It is a hard piece for me and i have been learning it for
more than half a year.
i have learned the hole piece and i can play some parts at 120 bpm and some a little bit slower.
i was wondering if someone can give me any advice for a practice routine that can develop
my confidence, stability and speed in this piece.

thanks for helping!! ;D

Offline michael_sayers

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #1 on: June 17, 2015, 09:24:26 AM
Practice it in small sections, and sometimes even with focus on individual measures that pose an issue.


Mvh,
Michael

Offline alon_hd

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 07:56:48 AM
up

Offline hardy_practice

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 08:28:27 AM
Ah, the king of etudes! and Chopin certainly meant it that way.
B Mus, PGCE, DipABRSM

Offline stevensk

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 11:51:30 AM

Chopin etude op 10 no 1 is a piece for VERY advanced pianists. It is pointless to struggle whith this piece if you have such difficulties whith it. Its just a waste of time. If you must play Chopin etudes, chose one that you can master and learn something from.

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 01:06:15 PM
10 no 1 is really a tough one. Many years ago I also tried that one first, since it is my favorite one (1 out of 24 favorites haha  ;D)and gave up pretty fast realizing I was certainly not ready.

But the OP already spent 6 months learning it. It is a lot of work they put into it.
If you still feel you can tackle its difficulty I would do the following. I would contact one of the Skype teachers you like and buy 1 lesson and have a professional tell you what they think. A professional teacher will tell you if its worth your time right now going on with work on it and if yes, how you can improve it.
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline stevensk

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #6 on: June 18, 2015, 01:17:49 PM
10 no 1 is really a tough one. Many years ago I also tried that one first, since it is my favorite one (1 out of 24 favorites haha  ;D)and gave up pretty fast realizing I was certainly not ready.
But the OP already spent 6 months learning it. It is a lot of work they put into it.
 

I suggests that "alon" spent 6 month on mastering Mozart sonatas, Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms, Chopin nocturnes and THEN came back to Chopin etudes. His problem would probably be solved and the 6 month struggle would not just be a waste of time.
-What do you learn in the lefthand by exercising Chopin op10 no1 in 6 months?  ...nothing

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 01:25:40 PM
Yes, I know. I already wrote it in one of my threads and I will be always repeating it - practicing pieces that are way out of one's level is a waste of time and may even be pretty destructive by causing injuries and creating/strengthening bad habits. To get rid of a bad habit requires so much time!
I was just thinking that maybe OP is not a beginner if they tackle a Chopin etude.
I like to think that people ARE reasonable.
Alon, if you have not, however, played some decent repertoire before then stay away from Chopin etudes!
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline hardy_practice

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 01:57:39 PM
I suggests that "alon" spent 6 month on mastering Mozart sonatas, Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms, Chopin nocturnes and THEN came back to Chopin etudes.
I'd go for Cramer and Moscheles etudes.  It's what Chopin always set.
B Mus, PGCE, DipABRSM

Offline alon_hd

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 02:29:30 PM
thank you all for the comments,
i have a  professional piano teacher and she gave me this etude because she thought
i was ready, but maybe you guys are right and im not ready yet.
i have played the piano for almost six years now and maybe this piece is out of my league.
however i will be kind of disappointed in myself if i stop learning it because i spent a lot of time and effort in this etude  :-\

Offline stevensk

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 03:03:29 PM

however i will be kind of disappointed in myself if i stop learning it because i spent a lot of time and effort in this etude  :-\

-Come back to the piece later in life. I bet you will find it affordable in the future

Offline anamnesis

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 03:34:59 PM
-Come back to the piece later in life. I bet you will find it affordable in the future

The difficulty with that approach, is that very few pieces in the literature naturally make you inclined to the coordination required by this piece.  The ones that do are also deemed extremely difficult so now you have chicken-and-egg scenario.  At some point you actually have to tackle one of these pieces and confront the real reasons why one's technical approach is flawed.   

Offline stevensk

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 06:03:34 PM
The difficulty with that approach, is that very few pieces in the literature naturally make you inclined to the coordination required by this piece.  The ones that do are also deemed extremely difficult so now you have chicken-and-egg scenario.  At some point you actually have to tackle one of these pieces and confront the real reasons why one's technical approach is flawed.   

-Umm..ok, to some degree you are right BUT im sure that you agree that an more advanced pianist are considerably more suited for op 10 no 1 than a less advanced pianist (or a plain newbie).

(As a sidenote, this piece is more about streching and jumping than coordination)

Offline anamnesis

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 06:41:24 PM
-Umm..ok, to some degree you are right BUT im sure that you agree that an more advanced pianist are considerably more suited for op 10 no 1 than a less advanced pianist (or a plain newbie).

(As a sidenote, this piece is more about streching and jumping than coordination)

Advance is vague.  Rather, it's the select sum of skill and understanding that are required by the music.  At the same time you could use the music to pick up the skills, by recognizing those deficiencies and working to fix them.  Being more advance in one sense means you have a greater probability of having more of those skills, and can thus more easily work on those you lack.  It's hard to say without more details from the OP, where they actually are in his or her development.  

The distinct problem with the Chopin etudes, especially at the indicated tempos, is that they present distinct problems that can only be solved by getting over the biases most early pedagogical material tend to instill.  

Coordination is a catch all term which would include jumping and what could be considered "stretching", but more particularly:

*How to time and organize the jumps in rhythmic motion and use it to relieve the burden at lower coordination levels.  The more you solve the degree of freedom problem at higher levels, the less you have to do it at lower levels.  

*Rather than stretching, how to time the opening and closing of the hand, and coordinate with the above. How to coordinate the opening and closing of the hand with the flexion and extension of the forearm by the upper arm.  

*Coordinating all these motions such that you can bring out the underlying voice leading structure over longer time spans.  

*Organizing your rhythm and coordination to feel the piece in two-bar hyper-measure.  

The art of piano is the realization that the rhythmic motions of the body are the physical counterpart of the musical long line and phrase rhythm in the music, which is ultimately at act of coordination.


Offline hardy_practice

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 07:00:16 PM
Yes.  I'm reminded of the bass drum player in a marching band.  Can you imagine it without the swinging arms?  No way Jose!
B Mus, PGCE, DipABRSM

Offline stevensk

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #15 on: June 18, 2015, 07:29:57 PM
Advance is vague.

Best way to escape an exposed situation:  The concept is "vague"  ;D ;D

Offline anamnesis

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #16 on: June 18, 2015, 07:31:17 PM
Yes.  I'm reminded of the bass drum player in a marching band.  Can you imagine it without the swinging arms?  No way Jose!

Speaking of swinging arms...

What's interesting is that the seemingly implied "relative" stillness of the left hand compared to the right provides one of the fundamental difficulties of the piece. If the left hand is not given enough respect, effort, and time, it will distort the balance of activity in the body needed for the right hand to do its job. (Hint: Just because you are holding down an octave for two measures, doesn't mean your hand and arm must remain still and that you don't move in rhythm with the right.)  

In some respects, the first Godowsky transcription of this etude, which more blatantly requires a balance of activity between both arms is actually easier than the original because it forces you to correct the appropriate balance of activity between both arms.  Transfer this sensation to the original, and it will become much easier.  

Offline goldentone

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #17 on: June 18, 2015, 07:59:06 PM
Swinging arms?
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline anamnesis

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #18 on: June 18, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
Swinging arms?

Arms in rhythmic motion, rather than strung along discrete actions. 

Offline hardy_practice

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #19 on: June 18, 2015, 08:30:06 PM
Can arms swing imperceptibly?  I would say so.
B Mus, PGCE, DipABRSM

Offline goldentone

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #20 on: June 18, 2015, 09:37:29 PM
Arms in rhythmic motion, rather than strung along discrete actions.  

I'll feel the desire to keep my stationary hand moving.  Perhaps that isn't a distraction to the playing and the physical execution of a piece.  I suppose the source should be examined.
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline outin

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Re: Practice routine for Chopin etude op 10 no 1
Reply #21 on: June 19, 2015, 03:15:49 AM
i have a  professional piano teacher and she gave me this etude because she thought
i was ready, but maybe you guys are right and im not ready yet.
i have played the piano for almost six years now and maybe this piece is out of my league.
This makes me wonder if maybe your teacher isn't ready to teach this piece. She should be able to judge if you are ready (assuming that you have been with her for some time) and if so should be able to help you manage it.
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