The hardest piece you can play

[pencilart3]

ok i go to a graveyard and will play it on Youtube

that burn tho

Oh, how clever...

[ajlongspiano]

Ballade three is the hardest ballade to pedal correctly.

[pencilart3]

Ballade three is the hardest ballade to pedal correctly.

AJ have you played it? Somebody come to my aid! Tell em about that C sharp minor section! Holy *insert curse word here*!!!!

[ajlongspiano]

I play 1 and 4 but have read through 3. The c# minor section in ballade 3 is one of the hardest sections in the entire ballade set.

[pencilart3]

I play 1 and 4 but have read through 3. The c# minor section in ballade 3 is one of the hardest sections in the entire ballade set.

yay thanks


WAIT YOU PLAY #4? Post it in the audition room man!!!

[ajlongspiano]

I will in the near future. I just want to have it a bit more polished for you guys

[kevonthegreatpianist]

yay thanks


WAIT YOU PLAY #4? Post it in the audition room man!!!

#4 isn't THAT difficult. pianists play it way faster than its supposed to be

and why are you that person who starts new pages?

I play 1 and 4 but have read through 3. The c# minor section in ballade 3 is one of the hardest sections in the entire ballade set.

yes it is. i think the a minor section of ballade 2 is a bit harder. the a major section of ballade 1 has a lot of octaves, and the presto con fuoco section is very difficult

[pencilart3]

#4 isn't THAT difficult.

YOU

ARE

STUPID

and why are you that person who starts new pages?

New pages are awesome

I will in the near future. I just want to have it a bit more polished for you guys

Oh sweet. I can't wait. Gosh can you seriously play that coda?

[kevonthegreatpianist]

YOU

ARE

STUPID

no, I'm pretty much a straight A student, and I take AP math (yes, theres a class like that in middle school)
like i said, ballade 4 isn't THAT difficult. just play everything the same speed as first speed and you'll be surprised how easier (not easy) it is

[ajlongspiano]

@kevonthegreatpianist - Haha I think you make a lot of crazy claims, but to each his own. Ballade 2 is the easiest ballade in my opinion. I haven't memorized it but I've played through passages and its just about organizing the material in your mind correctly. 3rd Ballade is a lot more frivolous and can fall apart very fast. I just think its the more difficult piece. Ballade 2 is very straight forward musically as well. Its very easy to completely botch ballade 3 where as ballade 2 doesn't take as much thought to pull off well. Ballade 4 is extremely difficult, I think you're just not looking at the big picture.

- AJ

[ajlongspiano]

just play everything the same speed as first speed and you'll be surprised how easier (not easy) it is

Dumbing down Chopin's musical vision to that extent is simply an insult. Don't do that.

[pencilart3]

I agree that 2 is the easiest. 2, 3, 1, 4.

[ajlongspiano]

I personally think its 2-3-4-1. 1 gave me a lot more trouble than 4. By the way, Noah. I'm very impressed that you play Op.25 No.6, I can never play that one well.

- AJ

[pencilart3]

I'm very impressed that you play Op.25 No.6, I can never play that one well.

- AJ

Well, I never said I could play it well either

[kevonthegreatpianist]

Well, I never said I could play it well either

same, i could only play it at 0.75 speed

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I personally think its 2-3-4-1. 1 gave me a lot more trouble than 4.

That's curious, but these things are often very personal. I think 4 is on a totally different level, musically, interpretatively and technically to the other three.

[pencilart3]

That's curious, but these things are often very personal. I think 4 is on a totally different level, musically, interpretatively and technically to the other three.

That's what I think as well.

[ajlongspiano]

@ronde_des_sylphes - I think 4 is harder on the surface, but communicating the big world of ballade 1 is harder in my opinion. I think ballade 1 is a world in of itself, and ballade 4 focuses on a portion of one world, but in great detail. Imagine that ballade 1 is a portrait of the whole grand canyon and the 4th zooms in to a specific part of it, but in much higher resolution and detail. I feel like the 4th ballade focuses more on small details, special effects, and nuance, where ballade 1 focuses on the big narrative/grand scheme. Which one comes easier depends on where your strengths lie I think. From a technical standpoint, I think Ballade 4 fits the hand much more than 1. Its all subjective, of course.

[rubinsteinmad]

no, I'm pretty much a straight A student, and I take AP math (yes, theres a class like that in middle school)
like i said, ballade 4 isn't THAT difficult. just play everything the same speed as first speed and you'll be surprised how easier (not easy) it is

AP Math and Advanced Placement Math are 2 different things, stupid

[rubinsteinmad]

no, I'm pretty much a straight A student, and I take AP math (yes, theres a class like that in middle school)
like i said, ballade 4 isn't THAT difficult. just play everything the same speed as first speed and you'll be surprised how easier (not easy) it is

"Pretty much straight A"? What does that mean? Does it mean you've gotten a B before? Then you're pretty much stupid.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

@ronde_des_sylphes - I think 4 is harder on the surface, but communicating the big world of ballade 1 is harder in my opinion. I think ballade 1 is a world in of itself, and ballade 4 focuses on a portion of one world, but in great detail. Imagine that ballade 1 is a portrait of the whole grand canyon and the 4th zooms in to a specific part of it, but in much higher resolution and detail. I feel like the 4th ballade focuses more on small details, special effects, and nuance, where ballade 1 focuses on the big narrative/grand scheme. Which one comes easier depends on where your strengths lie I think. From a technical standpoint, I think Ballade 4 fits the hand much more than 1. Its all subjective, of course.

Interesting how different conceptions can be, or perhaps I'm misreading your analogy. I think 1 is a far less mature piece; it's a piece which works well, but I find it deals with comparatively superficial ideas like projection of song, little question/answer episodes, and with a slightly theatrical quality. 4 covers a gamut of emotion, from the tender, almost dance-like introduction, to the end, which I feel is to do with death, hell, rage, a host of negative things. 4 is, I agree, much more intricate. I don't know how to interpret 4, categorically, and actually I find it quite a disturbing piece of music; furthermore in truth I think it's one of the greatest pieces ever written for piano, and I'm not particularly a Chopin fan. 1 I think you can almost interpret by rote if you've played enough melodic-oriented pieces, stuff from bel canto, other early Chopin; I wouldn't dare with 4. And I find the coda of 4 harder than 1 (possibly a personal technical strength issue, but I actually find the coda of 1 fairly easy apart from the assumption that the scales won't necessarily be absolutely in unison).

[rubinsteinmad]

@kevonthegreatpianist - Haha I think you make a lot of crazy claims, but to each his own. Ballade 2 is the easiest ballade in my opinion. I haven't memorized it but I've played through passages and its just about organizing the material in your mind correctly. 3rd Ballade is a lot more frivolous and can fall apart very fast. I just think its the more difficult piece. Ballade 2 is very straight forward musically as well. Its very easy to completely botch ballade 3 where as ballade 2 doesn't take as much thought to pull off well. Ballade 4 is extremely difficult, I think you're just not looking at the big picture.

- AJ

OMG I WISH I WAS YOU

I thought the EXACT SAME THING like 1 year ago. But then, the teacher I was learning from assigned me the Ballade 4. I loved to play/hear Chopin back then. It always gave me a certain sensation.

Before I learned from that arrogant (for no apparent reason) b!tch, my musical instincts were pretty musical. But after learning that friggin Chopin Ballade 4, my musical instincts completely changed. My teacher had made me play like a thousand times along with her (she can't even handle m.152-163 without making it sound like Hanon ), and the part she REALLY destroyed me are:

(1) in the theme and
(2)m.80-100, the "chorale" section.

Those places are the places that really show ur musical instinct.

Before, those places were LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT for me. But after learning from that b!tch, I couldn't play them musically. I am still trying to recover my musical instinct. Now, whenvver I do ritardandos, rubatos, or accelrandos, it is always because I am forcing myself to. It just doesn't sound NATURAL!!!!!!!!!!! I HATE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My teacher FORCED ME to play w/out any ritards.

So yeah, the "chorale" section of Ballade 4 and Ballade 2 are VERY similar, unfortunately. So that COMPLETELY changed me. Now, Ballade 2 is IMPOSSIBLE to play musically for me, now. what Before then, I never even USED the word "Musicality". But now, I always keep on using it. IT IS SO FREAKING STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So now, I have 0 musical sense on the chorale part, which just DOESNT MAKE SENSE ANYMORE. Also, each once in a while I attempt the Ballade 4 theme, it sounds like a Waltz when I'm playing. WHAT THE sh*t

Sorry for the rant. But kypiano is an angel compared to the b!tch teacher.

[rubinsteinmad]

Oh, and I was hearing my teacher demonstrating/forcing a student to play along with her for the Chopin Barcarolle. ANY PS USER who plays that piece would play it better

[chopinlover01]

^ You are aware the AP stands for advanced placement, right?
@Kevon You've made plenty of absurd claims, but the claim that Ballade 4 is easy by any comparison is probably at the top of the list.
While I disagree with AJ about Ballade 3 being harder than the second, and 4 being easier than 1, he can actually defend his claims.
And can prove he actually plays  
Anyways I'll stop being cynical

[ajlongspiano]

4 is for sure the greater masterpiece. I just like 1 better haha. I would be careful referring to ideas as " superficial " though haha. Maybe I understood you wrong, I'm sure you know that Ballade 1 is a masterpiece. I do appreciate your insights and agree with what you said about the fourth ballade for sure. It is very disturbing... Chopin expresses emotions in the fourth ballade that aren't communicated in any other pieces really. 4th ballade is much more mature compositionally. I just find the way the ballade 1 unfolds to be more touching. Glad we can discuss this!

[ajlongspiano]

@rubinsteinmad - If you would ever like some help or to even play for me over skype so we can discuss it, just let me know! I'm always willing to listen to my friends here on piano street.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Yes, perhaps superficial is the wrong word, and accessible is a better one.

[ajlongspiano]

@Chopinlover1 - Yeah and my rating is very weird/personal so I understand why people would disagree. Standardized difficulty ratings are the dumbest thing in the world. Its different for everybody!

[rubinsteinmad]

^ You are aware the AP stands for advanced placement, right?
@Kevon You've made plenty of absurd claims, but the claim that Ballade 4 is easy by any comparison is probably at the top of the list.
While I disagree with AJ about Ballade 3 being harder than the second, and 4 being easier than 1, he can actually defend his claims.
And can prove he actually plays  
Anyways I'll stop being cynical

Actually, there is only AP Geometry and AP Calculus. There is no AP Meth.

[pencilart3]

@rubinsteinmad - If you would ever like some help or to even play for me over skype so we can discuss it, just let me know! I'm always willing to listen to my friends here on piano street.

#glenross

(she was not being serious)

[rubinsteinmad]

#glenross

(she was not being serious)

Actually, I was being serious. For real. Swear to God. There.

#pencilart

[rubinsteinmad]

^ You are aware the AP stands for advanced placement, right?
@Kevon You've made plenty of absurd claims, but the claim that Ballade 4 is easy by any comparison is probably at the top of the list.
While I disagree with AJ about Ballade 3 being harder than the second, and 4 being easier than 1, he can actually defend his claims.
And can prove he actually plays  
Anyways I'll stop being cynical

Shut up.
He was played through so many Chopin Nocturnes, and has such a great love for Chopin, that he MUST have some sensation when playing Chopin (and I sincerely hope it isn't that sexual sensation he is always ranting about ). Thereffore, this Ballade must be easy for him musically.

BTW
Thanks for the microphone. I'll wait until my mom decides to open uph er purse.

[ajlongspiano]

@ronde_des_sylphes Accessible is a much better word. One example of a section of ballade 1 that was much more difficult for me than 4 was interpreting the main theme. Keeping the consistent waltz flow of ballade 1's theme while not sounding metronomic/contrived is horrifically difficult. The Ballade 4 main theme just flows better so it NATURALLY sounds more organic even in the hands of a pianist who might not be the most skilled. Ballade 1's g minor theme sounds so dry and stale in the hands of the wrong pianist. You have to worry about the pulse, keeping inner voices super soft, projecting the melody while not striking it too harsh, obeying the rests with out completely just lifting the pedal for the whole duration, there's just so many qualities that make that opening waltz so difficult. I think its the hardest part of the piece to be honest haha.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

@ronde_des_sylphes Accessible is a much better word. One example of a section of ballade 1 that was much more difficult for me than 4 was interpreting the main theme. Keeping the consistent waltz flow of ballade 1's theme while not sounding metronomic/contrived is horrifically difficult. The Ballade 4 main theme just flows better so it NATURALLY sounds more organic even in the hands of a pianist who might not be the most skilled. Ballade 1's g minor theme sounds so dry and stale in the hands of the wrong pianist. You have to worry about the pulse, keeping inner voices super soft, projecting the melody while not striking it too harsh, obeying the rests with out completely just lifting the pedal for the whole duration, there's just so many qualities that make that opening waltz so difficult. I think its the hardest part of the piece to be honest haha.

Yes, that's a fair enough argument tbh. I agree completely about the tendency, or rather capacity, to sound metronomic; it's a common failing of often even highly technically-gifted pianists. I probably underestimate the problem because whilst I do have areas which are problematic in my own playing, I think (!) I'm usually pretty convincing with micro-rubati and shaping.

[ajlongspiano]

@ronde_des_sylphes And honestly, they are both so difficult to play well and they're both masterpieces. I think we should just worry about being infinitely grateful to Mr. Chopin for his timeless contribution haha! By the way, you could definitely play ballade 4. You're a pretty amazing pianist!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

@ronde_des_sylphes And honestly, they are both so difficult to play well and they're both masterpieces. I think we should just worry about being infinitely grateful to Mr. Chopin for his timeless contribution haha! By the way, you could definitely play ballade 4. You're a pretty amazing pianist!

  Possibly, I have played 1 and 3 and played through (which isn't the same thing) 2 and 4 when I was younger. There's playing music, and then there's really playing music, of course, and the older I get the harsher I am on myself, I think. I certainly agree we should appreciate that they're part of the piano literature!

[rubinsteinmad]

Possibly, I have played 1 and 3 and played through (which isn't the same thing) 2 and 4 when I was younger. There's playing music, and then there's really playing music, of course, and the older I get the harsher I am on myself, I think. I certainly agree we should appreciate that they're part of the piano literature!

wELL, PEOPLE LIKE ME HATE THE BALLADE 2 AND 4 BECAUSE WE HAVE NO MORE MUSICAL SENSE STUPID

[ajlongspiano]

@rubinsteinmad - Don't hate the music! Just listen to a lot of recordings and start to mimic what the great's are doing. That'll help you get a good feel for what the piece is going for

[rubinsteinmad]

@rubinsteinmad - Don't hate the music! Just listen to a lot of recordings and start to mimic what the great's are doing. That'll help you get a good feel for what the piece is going for

Yeah, I know. I actually was thinking about playing the great masters while I was sleeping to help me gain musical instinct, but the problem is I will be analyzing the music in my sleep LOL I HATE ABSOLUTE PITCH IT IS A B!TCH

[schumaniac]

@rubinsteinmad - Don't hate the music! Just listen to a lot of recordings and start to mimic what the great's are doing. That'll help you get a good feel for what the piece is going for

^^^^^^^^^^^^

The 4th ballade was also one of the "warhorses" of one of my great friends. So, if/when you get a chance, listening to a "piano classmate" tackle a piece may help you too...

[kevonthegreatpianist]

Shut up.
He was played through so many Chopin Nocturnes, and has such a great love for Chopin, that he MUST have some sensation when playing Chopin (and I sincerely hope it isn't that sexual sensation he is always ranting about ). Thereffore, this Ballade must be easy for him musically.

BTW
Thanks for the microphone. I'll wait until my mom decides to open uph er purse.

nah, I'm straight 

wELL, PEOPLE LIKE ME HATE THE BALLADE 2 AND 4 BECAUSE WE HAVE NO MORE MUSICAL SENSE STUPID

ikr. I HATE 10/3 SO MUCH AND IM IN LOVE WITH 25/5

[kevonthegreatpianist]

^ You are aware the AP stands for advanced placement, right?
@Kevon You've made plenty of absurd claims, but the claim that Ballade 4 is easy by any comparison is probably at the top of the list.
While I disagree with AJ about Ballade 3 being harder than the second, and 4 being easier than 1, he can actually defend his claims.
And can prove he actually plays  
Anyways I'll stop being cynical

i have one more

mozart's k 545 is harder than Chopin's raincrap prelude and 9/2 nocturne.

Actually, there is only AP Geometry and AP Calculus. There is no AP Meth.

yes theres AP crystal meth

[schumaniac]

i have one more

mozart's k 545 is harder than Chopin's raincrap prelude and 9/2 nocturne.  yes theres AP crystal meth

Never heard of AP Geometry

[rubinsteinmad]

Never heard of AP Geometry

OMG I DONT FREAKING CARE

I CANT BELIEVE I GOT DISSED BY PENCILART FOR PLAYING A PIECE REALLY UNMUSICALLY. AS IF I DIDN'T WARN HIM

[opus90]

Never heard of AP Geometry

[kevonthegreatpianist]

OMG I DONT FREAKING CARE

I CANT BELIEVE I GOT DISSED BY PENCILART FOR PLAYING A PIECE REALLY UNMUSICALLY. AS IF I DIDN'T WARN HIM

well the forum hates me

[chopinlover01]

i have one more

mozart's k 545 is harder than Chopin's raincrap prelude and 9/2 nocturne.  

I don't disagree.
But you should rephrase it- Mozart's C major sonata (K545) is harder to play well than the Chopin selections you listed.

[kevonthegreatpianist]

I don't disagree.
But you should rephrase it- Mozart's C major sonata (K545) is harder to play well than the Chopin selections you listed.

true. heres my reasons why (just in case anyone disagrees):

-K 545 has some rapid notes, compared to raincrap's steady tempo
-Raincrap has no sixteenth notes; K 545 has plenty
-The second movement has sixteenth notes in both hands
-Raincrap is much easier to sightread and master IMO

[rubinsteinmad]

true. heres my reasons why (just in case anyone disagrees):

-K 545 has some rapid notes, compared to raincrap's steady tempo
-Raincrap has no sixteenth notes; K 545 has plenty
-The second movement has sixteenth notes in both hands
-Raincrap is much easier to sightread and master IMO

Have you honestly mastered K545?

[pencilart3]

honestly

Sorry, but that's not in his vocabulary.