Pianos manufacturer you like the most?

[zemos]

And i'm not talking about Steinway...

I like Petrof the most.

[anda]

bluthner and beckstein. but i'm not sure whether they are making these anymore (i know at some point there were two different bluthner factories - one in leipzig and one somewhere in uk)

[xvimbi]

bluthner and beckstein. but i'm not sure whether they are making these anymore (i know at some point there were two different bluthner factories - one in leipzig and one somewhere in uk)

www.bluethner.de
www.bechstein.de

[anda]

thanks

[chopinsetude]

Sorry, I gotta talk about Steinway

I've owned a baldwin, yamaha, and petrof.  A Steinway B is my next purchase.

[piano88]

I don't think anyone will disagree that Fazioli pianos are the finest..... you can tell that they're handmade with great care and expense. Just a shame about the price tag or i'd buy one today!
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[Goldberg]

It's hard to say that a piano is "the finest," but it is quite possible to say that there are "none finer" than Fazioli. In other words, all of the "big names" (the usual suspects) are excellent pianos, but what it comes down to is personal choice. Which nuances of each do you enjoy the most? And thus the topic, based solely on opinion.

Mine is C. Bechstein.

[zemos]

Sorry, I gotta talk about Steinway

I've owned a baldwin, yamaha, and petrof.  A Steinway B is my next purchase.

Well, I own an upright Steinway "K". I think it was made in 1940-something, and it's so great... love it!

I don't think anyone will disagree that Fazioli pianos are the finest..... you can tell that they're handmade with great care and expense. Just a shame about the price tag or i'd buy one today!
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No doubt. I should have added that to my post along with Steinway... Fazioli pianos are fine as Steinway, they don't make upright pianos though...

[etudes]

I would say Steinways
I love it
(i own Kawai grand piano at my house)

[Ludvig_Van_Me]

I have a Knight 'manufacteurs of Fine english pianos' piano.

Alfred Knight doesn't make pianos anymore so I am very grateful to own one.



So Knight pianos are my favourite 

[anda]

ok, playing today again made me remember why i love these two: bechstein for the brilliance of the sound and bluthner for the warmness (is there such a word?) of the sound.

and both of them for doing one thing i've never seen another piano (except for steinways) do: i feel like these pianos can read my mind - i just thought of something and i can hear it! gotta love them!

oh, and i hate yamahas and kawais - especially in discant they sound like broken glass and that hurts my ears.

[Hmoll]

I don't think anyone will disagree that Fazioli pianos are the finest..... you can tell that they're handmade with great care and expense. Just a shame about the price tag or i'd buy one today!
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I've played lots of Faziolis. they pretty much leave me cold, so I can't agree.
I love Grotrians, Bluthners, Bosendorfers, Mason & Hamlins. My favorite Steinways are US Ds and Bs. Steingraeber beats them all though, but I'm going by sound, since I've never had the opportunity to play one.

Estonias and Petrofs are both good mid-range pianos.

[e60m5]

Steinway NY.

Give me a NY B or D any time.

[piano88]

I've played lots of Faziolis. they pretty much leave me cold, so I can't agree.
I love Grotrians, Bluthners, Bosendorfers, Mason & Hamlins. My favorite Steinways are US Ds and Bs. Steingraeber beats them all though, but I'm going by sound, since I've never had the opportunity to play one.

Estonias and Petrofs are both good mid-range pianos.

Wow. I've never even heard of some of those manufacturers..... Well, each to his own.... I'm too a huge Steinway fan, I have one (B). Why do you say US Steinways are better? I've played both and, of course every piano is different, but quality wise I thought they were on a par.
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[jlh]

Well, depending on where the wood comes from, there may be excessive shrinkage as the wood seasons in the relatively dry climate in the US -- so that may be a factor.

As far as the pianos themselves, Steinway pretty much cornered the market because of their superior action (less repairs, smoother, etc.) and resonance capabilities by design.  However, in the 1980's, Yamaha started making very competative pianos... you know why?  because the same engineers that designed the Steinway were bribed by Yamaha to come and make their piano better using the Steinway designs.  If you look side by side at the whippon assembly (action)  of both the Yamaha and the Steinway, they're pretty much identical.  So that's why the newer Yamahas sound a lot better than the older Yamahas.


Me?  I've always liked the Steinway piano, if for no other reason than I get to see the logo when I play.

[chopinsetude]

oh, and i hate yamahas and kawais - especially in discant they sound like broken glass and that hurts my ears.

Yes, pre 1999.  I have a 2003 yamaha C2 and it's very warm.  My teachers 1985 Yamaha C5 is so shrill it's almost intolerable.

[chopin_girl]

1. STEINWAY, STEINWAY, STEINWAY
2. Boesendorfer
3. Yamaha-although it's got that sharp-ish tone,,,
4. Petrof-had one before Yamaha. Surved its purpose well.

I have a Yamaha. What I would really like is a concert grand Steinway. mmm...
(DARE TO DREAM)

[Hmoll]

Well, depending on where the wood comes from, there may be excessive shrinkage as the wood seasons in the relatively dry climate in the US -- so that may be a factor.

As far as the pianos themselves, Steinway pretty much cornered the market because of their superior action (less repairs, smoother, etc.) and resonance capabilities by design.  However, in the 1980's, Yamaha started making very competative pianos... you know why?  because the same engineers that designed the Steinway were bribed by Yamaha to come and make their piano better using the Steinway designs.  If you look side by side at the whippon assembly (action)  of both the Yamaha and the Steinway, they're pretty much identical.  So that's why the newer Yamahas sound a lot better than the older Yamahas.


Me?  I've always liked the Steinway piano, if for no other reason than I get to see the logo when I play.

Not sure where you get your information from, but Steinway has hardly cornered the market. As far as the action is concerned, a lot of people complain about the NY Steinways because the actions are not consistently good. The Hamburg actions were outsourced to Renner  years ago. As far as repair, I know people who have bought new S&Ss that have practically fallen apart in a couple years.

It is true that Steinway can brag about having their instruments in more concert halls, and played by more concert pianists than any other brand, but this is more through bullying marketing tactics than anything else. That situation is changing, btw.

As far as Yamaha, you have your decades wrong. They started making - and emulating Steinway - pianos way before the '80s. The Koreans then started in the '80s, and have almost caught up with Yamaha in terms of quality. Please post more about these "defecting" engineers. I've never heard that.

BTW, I prefer the NY Steinway because I personally like the sound better.

[Greentea028]

i played on a 9 foot baldwin for my school recital. i didnt like the touch of it cuz i was playing an etude. Maybe its just me

i own a petrof, it is beautiful. The action is perfect and if you have heavy hands, the piano will not break upon playing on it.

[piano88]

It still eludes me when I hear

BTW, I prefer the NY Steinway because I personally like the sound better.

I don't understand how the two steinway factories can make such different instruments - I thought the only difference was the rounded fall.... please enlighten me! I've played good and bad Steinways from both factories - worst was ironically at Juilliard in the US and the Royal Academy in London, both at auditions and both were terrible instruments!

As for Yamaha, well my first piano was a 1993 C3 baby grand (they stopped making these now, or gave it a different name) which I still have at my parent's house....it has always been and still is a beautiful instrument....perhaps I was lucky!

Although as soon as I have £80000 to spare, I'll buy a Fazioli (and 80 grand only gets you a Steinway B size!)...I believe the concert grands go for at least £100k.
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[dmk]

I have played on a Steinway and a Fazioli and these pianos beat them all:

https://www.stuartandsons.com/pages/home.html

Stuart and Sons is an Australian manufactured piano and the sound produced by these pianos are just amazing.  They are beautifully crafted instruments and I was very lucky to play on one (at the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney).

Have a look at the website and take a read, they will not dissapoint!!!!

[jlh]

Not sure where you get your information from, but Steinway has hardly cornered the market. As far as the action is concerned, a lot of people complain about the NY Steinways because the actions are not consistently good. The Hamburg actions were outsourced to Renner  years ago. As far as repair, I know people who have bought new S&Ss that have practically fallen apart in a couple years.

Ok, perhaps "cornered the market" was a bit stong.  However, Steinway has a long reputation of building pianos that last.  They are also easier to repair than most other pianos.  I've seen the actions of many other manufacturers and the action of S&S is easily the most solid design.  Perhaps your friends need to tune their pianos more frequently, or abuse it less, because a Steinway doesn't even come into it's own until a few years of playing on it -- much like the first 100k miles on a Cadillac are considered the "breaking in" miles.

It is true that Steinway can brag about having their instruments in more concert halls, and played by more concert pianists than any other brand, but this is more through bullying marketing tactics than anything else. That situation is changing, btw.

Such strong opinions you have...  "bullying marketing tactics"?  Liszt preferred and played on a Steinway, and I doubt it took much bullying to get him to play on it.  I would like to think that if most concert pianists choose a Steinway, it is more about the piano and less about the marketing; afterall, they're the ones that have to play on them -- would they all choose to play on an unreliable and inferior piano on the sole basis of marketing? No?  Then the logical conclusion is that the Steinway is neither unreliable nor inferior.

As far as Yamaha, you have your decades wrong. They started making - and emulating Steinway - pianos way before the '80s. The Koreans then started in the '80s, and have almost caught up with Yamaha in terms of quality. Please post more about these "defecting" engineers. I've never heard that.

You're right, Yamaha did start emulating the Steinway earlier than the '80s, but they were frustrated because they couldn't get a tone or action comperable to the S&S piano.  So, in an effort to improve their situation, they did some under-the-table negotiating with some of the S&S engineers, offering them so much [money, houses, college for their children, etc.] that they simply couldn't refuse.  All they had to do was bring the blueprints with them.  Then, in the early '80s, Yamaha was making pianos that rivaled the Steinway.  They now came with a Capo d’astro bar in the treble region and the actions to both the Steinway and the Yamaha grand pianos were (and are) virtually IDENTICAL.  This is not something either company will brag about, but I was fortunate to hear of this from a master piano technician I know.

The result?  You can now buy a piano from Yamaha for half the price of a Steinway piano and you will get virtually the same thing.  Granted, the softer wood in the Yamaha gives it a more "brittle" and metallic sound.  Also, since Steinway pianos are hand manufactured, each one has it's own character -- some better than others, but if you've ever played on one of the better ones (as I have), it will likely restore at least some of your faith in the company.  Since the Yamaha piano is built by robots, each one will likely sound the same as the next, making it very consistant.

[richard w]

I played on a Yamaha concert grand in a piano shop a few years ago. I think the instrument was mostly used as a hire instrument, and therefore was already a few years old. The salesman explained that Yamaha copied the Steinway D more or less detail for detail, but then got into trouble and had to change their design slightly. He therefore intimated that this particular instrument was better than Yamaha's latest concert grands. I wasn't sure whether to take him completely at his word, but some details certainly fit in with what has been mentioned above. No matter, it was definitely a fine piano, and has to go down as one of my favourite piano-playing experiences.

I personally think it is hard to compare one piano to the next, unless you have them side by side in the same room. The acoustics of a given space probably account for a lot of one's perception.

My own piano is an upright Steingraeber 130. It is a shame that it suffers (slightly) from the limitations of all upright actions, but the tone is exceptional. A friend of mine has a Yamaha C5 (I think), and although I like its action, I vastly prefer the tone of my own instrument. One day, I might consider acquiring a grand, but I think I would have to spend a lot of money to match the tone I currently have.

Anyone in the market for a high quality upright piano should check out Steingraeber before buying. They make a 138, which is the largest upright on the market, and is a very fine piano. It will offer you just about everything you expect from a fine grand, and fit neatly against the wall.

[Hmoll]

 

Such strong opinions you have...  "bullying marketing tactics"?  Liszt preferred and played on a Steinway, and I doubt it took much bullying to get him to play on it.  I would like to think that if most concert pianists choose a Steinway, it is more about the piano and less about the marketing; afterall, they're the ones that have to play on them -- would they all choose to play on an unreliable and inferior piano on the sole basis of marketing? No?  Then the logical conclusion is that the Steinway is neither unreliable nor inferior.


 

Read about Steinway's reaction to Garrick Ohlsson when he had the affrontery to make very positive statements about Bosendorfer. That's a typical Steinway reaction, as well as the way they maintain their roster of so-called "Steinway Artists."

The people I know with problems with the actions, etc. were all professionals who kept their instruments in tune - not sure what that has to do with the action - and otherwise in good maintenance.

The Steinway "break-in period?" Why would that be different than any other high end piano? Sounds like another marketing ploy.

I like the Ds and Bs, but I like other instruments more. Steinway is resting on their reputation.

[jlh]

Read about Steinway's reaction to Garrick Ohlsson when he had the affrontery to make very positive statements about Bosendorfer. That's a typical Steinway reaction, as well as the way they maintain their roster of so-called "Steinway Artists."

I never heard about that, what was their reaction?

The people I know with problems with the actions, etc. were all professionals who kept their instruments in tune - not sure what that has to do with the action - and otherwise in good maintenance.

I'm not a technician, but I know enough to say that tuning a piano is more than simply tightening the strings.  Many problems people have with actions happen because of the breaking in of the felt, settling of the springs, pins, wood, etc.  These actions need to be adjusted from time to time -- especially in the beginning few years while everything is "finding it's place". 

[jlh]

The Steinway "break-in period?" Why would that be different than any other high end piano? Sounds like another marketing ploy.

It's probably not that different from other high-end pianos.  The difference mainly is in the Japanese piano's (ahem...) that come from the manufacturer with hammers already hardened and actions that are lighter so they do not need time for these things to settle themselves.  You can hurry the process along for other pianos like Steinway by applying lacquer to the hammers to harden them, but what helps the most is time and simply playing on the instrument.

[teachum]

Without getting technical - which I'm not really qualified to do - I love my Estonia 190!  I played many pianos in my search a few months ago, and it was the piano for me!  Love its sound, action and price!  Went into the search a skeptic and came away loving it. 

[Axtremus]

Since we're talking about favorite piano manufacturers...

Pearl River, DongBei, Sejung, Yantai LongFeng -- I think I like them best. Not because they make the best pianos, but because I think they're producing and selling lots and lots of pianos and doing so PROFITABLY. Each is probably making more money than Bosendorfer and Steinway and Bechstein and Fazioli and Bluthner and Grotrian put together. I think these Chinese piano makers will provide the bread and butter pianos for the next generations of pianists.

I like Yamaha and Kawai too -- because they produce bascially good pianos that every one can afford. They have something for every one. Poor student with limited budget but needs a reliable piano? No problem, they've got a few models for you to choose from. Piano teachers needing somewhat higher performance piano yet can take a beating from students? No problem, they've got something for you too! Got $100k to equip a concert hall with super high-performance piano? No problem, you're covered there too! Want digital pianos, keyboards, and synthesizers? You're covered, no matter your price point. Along with Kimball (no longer making piano) and Baldwin (in a rather sad state of affairs right now, I think), these makers make the war horse pianos that allowed the recent generations of pianists to learn their crafts and learn to appreciate piano music. I like these manufacturers best because I think they contributed the most to the promotion of piano music and piano education, world wide, for the last 30 years. Yamaha and Kawai established their own music schools and piano technology schools that trained millions of piano students and thousands of piano technicians. That, to me, is more important and represents a much greater contribution to the world of pianos than producing a few hundred super nice, super expensive pianos a year that very few has even heard about, much less experience and enjoy. (Yamaha and Kawai do produce limited edition "super nice, super expensive" pianos as well -- like the S-series and the Shigerus.)

Just looking at things from a different angle.

[teachum]

I have to say, Ax.  Your Kawai piano sounded really fine on the recording you posted! 

[Axtremus]

Thanks, teachum.

[piano88]

Since we're talking about favorite piano manufacturers...

Pearl River, DongBei, Sejung, Yantai LongFeng -- I think I like them best. Not because they make the best pianos, but because I think they're producing and selling lots and lots of pianos and doing so PROFITABLY. Each is probably making more money than Bosendorfer and Steinway and Bechstein and Fazioli and Bluthner and Grotrian put together. I think these Chinese piano makers will provide the bread and butter pianos for the next generations of pianists.

I appreciate you're looking at this one "from a different angle" but I have to disagree. Mass produced pianos such as Yamaha and Pearl River are fine, occasionally you'll be lucky and find a real gem. But they don't come close to the pianos of namely Fazioli, but also Steinway and the likes, who put a huge amount of care and hand's on manufacturiung into each instrument. Whilist you see it as they are serving the pianists by making more pianos, Yamaha and the like don't put as much care in.....thats why you rarely see them in big concert halls....imagine Agrerich coming out to the stage and playing on a Pearl River piano....hell, even I'd be reluctant.
I truly believe it's better to churn out 100 excellent pianos a year (like Fazioli do) than 10000 mediocre ones. The main culprits for this seem to be the Asian manufacturers (perhaps it's because they have a bigger market). And I suspect that profits of these manufacturers aren't as massive as you make it out.....the most expensive Steinway is £85000, Bosendorfer similar and Fazioli, well, they venture into the 100 thousands. Yamaha and the likes are good 'n' cheap, thats why they are so common in music institutions....my old music school had about 150 Yamaha pianos..... (my college now has about 7....and about 100 Steinways and a Fazioli concert grand....quality speaks for itself!)

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[Michele Felice]

Actually, Piano88, you are not quite clear on the quality issue. Yamaha and Kawai may be "mass-produced" pianos (depending on the model--many Yamahas and Kawais are built with as much or more expert handwork than N.Y. Steinways) because they make a lot of them. Their less expensive models may have, relatively, not a lot of hand-fitting. But Yamaha and Kawai quality control is very good; arguably considerably better than N.Y. Steinway. Yamahas and Kawais are so well-made that nearly any knowledgable technician will tell you that they vary very little or virtually not at all from example to example of the same model. On the other hand N.Y. Steinways are famous for being all over the place between examples of the same model in terms of touch and tone.

One U.S. maker I do like (I own a studio model) is Charles Walter. The quality of Walter pianos is uniformly very high.

[Motrax]

I'm curious to know how many of you have ever played on a Steingraeber? My friend got one, and it's about twice as good as the next best instrument I've played on. The tone is simply stunning, and the touch is unlike anything else I've ever felt. The keys melt under your fingers for fast, light passages, but somehow the action feels harder when you play louder, so you have more control over the sound you create...

Playing on a Steingraeber redefines piano. 

As far as Steinways go - I find them awfully inconsistant. I've played on a few nice ones, but for the most part I find that the bass drowns out everything else, and the upper register doesn't sing at all, it just sort of gets spit out and dies away weakly.

I own a Young Chang (G175 is the model, I think?) baby grand, and I love it, though it's probably not something everyone would like. It has a very bright tone, but gives very good control over sonorities and has pretty light action. Bluthner is a good brand, and Yamaha seems to be pretty consistant all around.