Franz Liszt's odd accidental and note time

[ulymoon]

Hello,
I'll reallly appreciate your help with the following 3 questions concerning a bridged version of Liszt's "Liebestraum", the key signature is F#; the time is 3/4. 

1- in picture No.1: why are there quarter rests? and how come there are two half notes (in the treble line; and a half note plus a dotted half in the bass) while the time is only 3/4?

2- in picture No.2; Arrow no.1: does the sharp affect the C in the two circled measures? Arrow no.2 why the G is neutralized? It's a new measure, so there isn't a need to neutralize it. Is it just a reminder that G is back to neutral?

3- in picture No.3: Does the sharp affect the C in both measures?

Thank you in anticipation.

[pencilart3]

a bridged version of Liszt's Liebestraum,

Oh boy.

[outin]

I think you need a teacher...

1. In piano music there are such things as voices. This part starts with only 2 (one in both hands) but two others are added in this measure. But not on the first beat, which is marked by the rests.

2. Arrow one: Yes, you keep the C sharp down for both measures, that's what the curved lines mean. Arrow 2: It's just a reminder.

3. Again, you don't lift the C sharp, so yes.

[ulymoon]

Thanks a bunch outin for taking care of all my questions.
Would you please clarify your fist answer.

Also, do you mean that the Cs are tied, so we just play it once because that's a tie and not a slur (answer no.2 & 3)?

Cheers

[ulymoon]

Oh boy.

Why the "oh boy"?

[lelle]

I'Ve attached a picture of how to execute the first picture. You hold the different half note for their duration, marked by each red line. I've written the beat in blue so you can see where in the bar each note enters. If you look at the notes with their stems up they fit in a 3/4 bar. The same with the rests plus half notes with their stems down. The notes with their stems up and stems down are said to be separate "voices". If you only had two voices in total you would probably write the rest and note with the stem down in the bass clef. But since you have more voices than that they have to squeeze in the extra voices in the same clef.

[outin]

Thanks a bunch outin for taking care of all my questions.
Would you please clarify your fist answer.

Also, do you mean that the Cs are tied, so we just play it once because that's a tie and not a slur (answer no.2 & 3)?

1. Most piano music is polyphonic, imagine a chorus singing on the piano. But the different voices have to fit on the same two clefs. The rests are there to "fill" the measure for those voices consistently with the meter (you need to add 1/4 rests to the 1/2 notes to make 3/4).

Yes, those are ties, not legato slurs.

[pencilart3]

Why the "oh boy"?

Sorry, I cringe at "abridged pieces".

[ulymoon]

Lelle,
I really can't thank you enough. That's kind of you. it's a very clear demo.

Outin,
Thank you. You saved me a lot of time... the piece is full of voices.

* It feels wonderful that this forum has such helpful and knowledgeable people.

[pencilart3]

* It feels wonderful that this forum has such helpful and knowledgeable people.

Unlike me. Sorry!! 

[ulymoon]

Sorry, I cringe at "abridged pieces".

Pencilart3,
Never mind; It's no problem. I'd never cringe at a simplified version of. It's just a landmark on the pathway to a future practice of the original piece.

Why think that... I'm sure you'll help me and others sometime...

Regards.

[pencilart3]

Yes, I suppose you could think that. I say, if you can't play the piece, just play easier pieces until you have built up the technique necessary to actually play it. But that's not my decision. Good luck with your pieces!!

[ulymoon]

I'Ve attached a picture of how to execute the first picture. You hold the different half note for their duration, marked by each red line. I've written the beat in blue so you can see where in the bar each note enters. If you look at the notes with their stems up they fit in a 3/4 bar. The same with the rests plus half notes with their stems down. The notes with their stems up and stems down are said to be separate "voices". If you only had two voices in total you would probably write the rest and note with the stem down in the bass clef. But since you have more voices than that they have to squeeze in the extra voices in the same clef.

Please bear with me for a while, it might be a silly question:

I understand that the in the first two voices, B is written with an upward stem to make space for the rest, but why D# & A are written with their stems up while there is enough space for their conventional downward stems?

[themeandvariation]

1. Most piano music is polyphonic, imagine a chorus singing on the piano. But the different voices have to fit on the same two clefs. The rests are there to "fill" the measure for those voices consistently with the meter (you need to add 1/4 rests to the 1/2 notes to make 3/4).

Yes, those are ties, not legato slurs.

If you don't understand this explanation, a teacher sitting with you will help.. Notice the markings lelle made on your posted score..

[ulymoon]

Yes, I suppose you could think that. I say, if you can't play the piece, just play easier pieces until you have built up the technique necessary to actually play it. But that's not my decision. Good luck with your pieces!!

Now I understand your point and I agree with you; actually it's my usual way but once in a while I do a simplified version of a piece that I passionately love for fun, motivation and other reasons; yet, I find it a great way to learn things that pieces at my level never bring out... a simplified piece teaches me more than I ever thought as far as musicianship, technique, composition, etc are concerned... now I do that as a strategy of learning but only as one thing among the pieces at my level.

[ulymoon]

If you don't understand this explanation, a teacher sitting with you will help.. Notice the markings made on your posted score..

Thanks but now I understand it.

No teachers here... and my internet connection is not up to online video calls...I'll have to find a teacher willing to teach me via email!!! No kidding.

[pencilart3]

I'll have to find a teacher willing to teach me via email!!! No kidding.

Good luck, you may need it.

[outin]

Please bear with me for a while, it might be a silly question:

I understand that the in the first two voices, B is written with an upward stem to make space for the rest, but why D# & A are written with their stems up while there is enough space for their conventional downward stems?

Often (but not always) the direction of the stems is consistent in helping to identify which voice is which, because they often overlap (the lower voice goes higher and the higher voice comes lower). The pianist can then "voice" correctly, not breaking the melody line in the "main" voice and playing it more strongly.

[ulymoon]

Pencilart3,
Although I'm a self-study guy, I certainly need a teacher.
Respectable forums like pianostreet and others are also great sources of learning.
Good luck.

Lelle,
I appreciate your help. Again you've explained the point very well.
A bunch of thanks.

[ulymoon]

Outin,
Sorry, I meant you. Thanks a lot and I extend my thanks to lelle too.

[pencilart3]

Pencilart3,
Although I'm a self-study guy, I certainly need a teacher.
Respectable forums like pianostreet and others are also great sources of learning.
Good luck.

No sorry, I'm not explaining my self very well today. I meant that it may be very hard to find a teacher who will teach you only over email! There are many things that email is great for, but I'm afraid that piano teaching is not one of them.

[ulymoon]

Never mind.

You're absolutely right; email doesn't work for piano lessons. I was just exaggerating the difficult situation I'm in.

Since there are no teachers around in my place, and the best available internet connection is not practically up to online distant lessons, I think of having a sort of a "piano adviser" (I guess the term is widely used in the US and they usually use it for an advanced level, right?).

I mean I need a professional who will structure my learning, choose books and pieces for me, give me advice... guide me all the way along. Also, I can record short videos of my practice so as they can watch it and critique my trials. Similarly, they can record short videos of themselves if they want to demonstrate anything.

However, I'm not sure how to find that teacher.

By the way I used to study with a good teacher via Skype, she was a real lady and very well-educated, unfortunately, the internet was a problem.

#many musicians can't explain themselves well!
Relax and enjoy life to the lees.