Piano Forum



International Piano Day 2024
Piano Day is an annual worldwide event that takes place on the 88th day of the year, which in 2024 is March 28. Established in 2015, it is now well known across the globe. Every year it provokes special concerts, onstage and online, as well as radio shows, podcasts, and playlists. Read more >>

Topic: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10  (Read 1880 times)

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
on: September 11, 2015, 01:38:48 AM
Now this has never been posted before!

May I have a list correlating on your opinion of Chopin's etudes on a scale from 1 to 10?

And ya, I talk smart.   


10/1: 9
10/2: 9.5
10/3: 8.5
10/4: 9
10/5: 9
10/6: 7.5
10/7: 9
10/8: 9
10/9: 8.5
10/10: 9
10/11: 8.5
10/12: 8.5
25/1: 8.5
25/2: 8
25/3: 9
25/4: 8.5
25/5: 9
25/6: 10
25/7: 8.5
25/8: 9
25/9: 8.5
25/10: 9
25/11: 10
25/12: 9
TNE 1: 7
TNE 2: 7
TNE 3: 8
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.

Offline kypiano

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #1 on: September 11, 2015, 03:15:40 AM
 ::)
Now this has never been posted before!

May I have a list correlating on your opinion of Chopin's etudes on a scale from 1 to 10?

And ya, I talk smart.  


10/1: 9
10/2: 9.5
10/3: 8.5
10/4: 9
10/5: 9
10/6: 7.5
10/7: 9
10/8: 9
10/9: 8.5
10/10: 9
10/11: 8.5
10/12: 8.5
25/1: 8.5
25/2: 8
25/3: 9
25/4: 8.5
25/5: 9
25/6: 10
25/7: 8.5
25/8: 9
25/9: 8.5
25/10: 9
25/11: 10
25/12: 9
TNE 1: 7
TNE 2: 7
TNE 3: 8


I haven't played most of them, because I find Liszt far more worthy of my short time remaining on this planet ::), but I think you overrate Winter Wind. Or maybe not. It takes some time to learn, while Op. 10 #1 takes not as much time, if you only treat it as an "excersize".  I think Winter Wind is good for your brain, but it doesn't really improve your technique, unlike the Liszt Etudes.

Oh, yes, THANK YOU for not underrating Op. 25 #3. I feel so loved! (as if)

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #2 on: September 11, 2015, 03:57:10 AM
They're all 10 for me. Seriously, there will never be another such set of etudes. But, how could I refuse a topic on Chopin's etudes... ;D

Well what do you mean by that? Preference? How much I like to listen to them? How much they improve technique? Oh well. Here we go.

Op. 10
1 - 8.5
2 - 8
3 - 8.5
4 - 9.5
5 - 7.5
6 - 7.5
7 - 7.5
8 - 7.5
9 - 7.5
10 - 10
11 - 7
12 - 7.5

Op. 25

1 - 8
2 - 7.5
3 - 10
4 - 8
5 - 10
6 - 9.5
7 - 7
8 - 7.5
9 - 8
10 - 8.5
11 - 9
12 - 8.5

Nouvelle

1 - 8.5
2 - 9.5
3 - 6
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline glennross

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #3 on: September 11, 2015, 07:58:56 AM
I think neither Liszt's or Chopin's etudes, improve your technique in the slightest. For me, I've experienced it when I played them once in a concert (the Chopin etudes) and actually thought: "What am I doing. I am playing a set of so-called technical/musical exercises which are actually not so much precisely that." After this I never played them again, and nowadays I only play them for myself in a moment in which I really don't know what to play else.

By the way, stop with these threads. You won't learn anything from it.

Anyway, my experience as to the order of difficulty (and to be a terrible contradict of my own post) was:

Etude in E major op. 10,3
Etude in e flat minor op. 10,6
Etude in A flat major op. 25,1
Etude in f minor op. 25,2
Etude in c sharp minor op. 25,7
Etude in G flat major op. 10,5
Etude in C major op. 10,7
Etude in A flat major op. 10,10
Etude in f minor op. 10,9
Etude in E flat major op. 10,11
Etude in F major op. 25,3
Etude in G flat major op. 25,9
Etude in c minor op. 10,12
Etude in a minor op. 25,4
Etude in e minor op. 25,5
Etude in D flat major op. 25,8
Etude in a minor op. 10,2
Etude in c sharp minor op. 10,4
Etude in F major op. 10,8
Etude in c minor op. 25,12
Etude in C major op. 10,1
Etude in g sharp minor op. 25,6
Etude in b minor op. 25,10
Etude in a minor op. 25,11

BW,
Glenn
"The finest instrument, is the mind."
-----------------------------------------

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #4 on: September 11, 2015, 01:51:13 PM
Anyone who says that 25/6 won't improve your thirds is a lying idiot. @OP did you mean difficulty or preference? Because I just did preference.
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline glennross

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #5 on: September 11, 2015, 04:12:02 PM
Anyone who says that 25/6 won't improve your thirds is a lying idiot. @OP did you mean difficulty or preference? Because I just did preference.

Would you happen to find a piece which has that kind of third passages on the some notes, it will improve your thirds for that piece. But, there is no such thing as improving your thirds in general. Practicing is always related to a certain piece. You cannot practice to improve your thirds, however, you can practice to improve your thirds for a certain piece.

"The finest instrument, is the mind."
-----------------------------------------

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #6 on: September 11, 2015, 04:13:23 PM
Would you happen to find a piece which has that kind of third passages on the some notes, it will improve your thirds for that piece. But, there is no such thing as improving your thirds in general. Practicing is always related to a certain piece. You cannot practice to improve your thirds, however, you can practice to improve your thirds for a certain piece.

Uh... I presume you have never played this piece?


BTW disregard my list up there, I thought the OP was talking about how much we like the etudes. Not difficulty.
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline glennross

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #7 on: September 11, 2015, 04:20:22 PM
Uh... I presume you have never played this piece?

Of course I played it, otherwise I wouldn't have posted about it. By the way, I said I played all of them in a concert once. But however. I experienced indeed exactly what I said in my earlier post. As a matter of fact, I never used the Chopin etudes to improve any kind of technical difficulties. I only improved them by practicing the piece with which that difficult passage I had difficulties.

If I take a Chopin etude which has, say a passage of 24 12-note thirds on F-sharp;A and F;A-flat, that's not going to improve anything for that piece which has 48 12-note thirds on A;C-sharp and A-flat;B.

"The finest instrument, is the mind."
-----------------------------------------

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #8 on: September 11, 2015, 04:28:41 PM
Of course I played it, otherwise I wouldn't have posted about it. By the way, I said I played all of them in a concert once. But however. I experienced indeed exactly what I said in my earlier post. As a matter of fact, I never used the Chopin etudes to improve any kind of technical difficulties. I only improved them by practicing the piece with which that difficult passage I had difficulties.

If I take a Chopin etude which has, say a passage of 24 12-note thirds on F-sharp;A and F;A-flat, that's not going to improve anything for that piece which has 48 12-note thirds on A;C-sharp and A-flat;B.

I know. I read your post saying you have played all of them. But someone who has played this piece will find that they don't have trouble with thirds of any kind. Yes, of course some thirds are different that others, but as long as you keep up the practice on chopin 25/6, you get the feeling of relaxed wrists, finger independence and separation, and how to cross the b-c and e-f double white keys. The things about 25/6 is that it teaches you double trills, thirds runs up and down, managing 4 or 8 chromatic scales at the same time, and changing direction within the runs. What else could you do with thirds, at least in the right hand? I have never had problem with any thirds since.
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline glennross

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #9 on: September 11, 2015, 07:54:59 PM
I know. I read your post saying you have played all of them. But someone who has played this piece will find that they don't have trouble with thirds of any kind. Yes, of course some thirds are different that others, but as long as you keep up the practice on chopin 25/6, you get the feeling of relaxed wrists, finger independence and separation, and how to cross the b-c and e-f double white keys. The things about 25/6 is that it teaches you double trills, thirds runs up and down, managing 4 or 8 chromatic scales at the same time, and changing direction within the runs. What else could you do with thirds, at least in the right hand? I have never had problem with any thirds since.

Principally, you could not do anything more with thirds, except for that one, deciding, thing which is what keys they're on. This again, brings with it some more different things from other thirds, two of them being which movement of the arm and hand placement. Only these two already decide wether a third passage should be practiced apart from another one already. The only thing this etude might give you, is indeed that relexation of the wristst.

However, it does not in any way gives you finger independence, for that, you should look at the music of Herr Bach.

Look, don't take this as an attack, it's just a difference in opinion. You don't have to tell me what the op. 25/6 teaches you. For me, it only teaches that for that piece and not for any other piece with that kind of third passages, except if there could be found a third passage which is exactly the same.
"The finest instrument, is the mind."
-----------------------------------------

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #10 on: September 13, 2015, 12:37:18 AM


BTW disregard my list up there, I thought the OP was talking about how much we like the etudes. Not difficulty.
erm no the second one
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #11 on: September 13, 2015, 12:39:06 AM
I think neither Liszt's or Chopin's etudes, improve your technique in the slightest. For me, I've experienced it when I played them once in a concert (the Chopin etudes) and actually thought: "What am I doing. I am playing a set of so-called technical/musical exercises which are actually not so much precisely that." After this I never played them again, and nowadays I only play them for myself in a moment in which I really don't know what to play else.

By the way, stop with these threads. You won't learn anything from it.

Anyway, my experience as to the order of difficulty (and to be a terrible contradict of my own post) was:

Etude in E major op. 10,3
Etude in e flat minor op. 10,6
Etude in A flat major op. 25,1
Etude in f minor op. 25,2
Etude in c sharp minor op. 25,7
Etude in G flat major op. 10,5
Etude in C major op. 10,7
Etude in A flat major op. 10,10
Etude in f minor op. 10,9
Etude in E flat major op. 10,11
Etude in F major op. 25,3
Etude in G flat major op. 25,9
Etude in c minor op. 10,12
Etude in a minor op. 25,4
Etude in e minor op. 25,5
Etude in D flat major op. 25,8
Etude in a minor op. 10,2
Etude in c sharp minor op. 10,4
Etude in F major op. 10,8
Etude in c minor op. 25,12
Etude in C major op. 10,1
Etude in g sharp minor op. 25,6
Etude in b minor op. 25,10
Etude in a minor op. 25,11

BW,
Glenn
wait when was 25/7 harder than 25/1 and 10/3 easier than 10/6. and when was  10/1 harder than 10/1 and 25/4 that up the list? and why is 10/5 easier than 10/9? i know its an opinion but I'm curious
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.

Offline briansaddleback

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 705
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 06:02:06 AM
I'm really into 25 5 now. So beautiful. 
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline briansaddleback

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 705
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 07:56:47 PM
I think neither Liszt's or Chopin's etudes, improve your technique in the slightest. For me, I've experienced it when I played them once in a concert (the Chopin etudes) and actually thought: "What am I doing. I am playing a set of so-called technical/musical exercises which are actually not so much precisely that." After this I never played them again, and nowadays I only play them for myself in a moment in which I really don't know what to play else.

Either youre above the paygrade of technical results playing through etudes over a course of time , so you're much better than many pianists who even claim they continue to work on these for the benefit of these...
or
your definition of 'performance' is broooooaaaad.
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 08:11:24 PM
I'm really into 25 5 now. So beautiful. 

Yes!! Everyone plays it so uglily, but it is such a beautiful piece. I don't just mean the middle part, the whole entire thing has a beautiful form and structure. That is proved by listening to pollini playing it one time.
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #15 on: September 15, 2015, 10:02:10 PM
Yes!! Everyone plays it so uglily, but it is such a beautiful piece. I don't just mean the middle part, the whole entire thing has a beautiful form and structure. That is proved by listening to pollini playing it one time.
yeah, same as 10/11, and atonalic pieces.
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.

Offline cbreemer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 407
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #16 on: September 16, 2015, 03:43:30 PM
That's an interesting point Glenn made. It boils down to something I've heard before : you learn
only what you practice. By this reasoning daily practice of specialized etudes probably does not
help you much. E.g. you could extensively practice double octaves and double-third runs but
actually you don't encounter them so much, unless you specialize in bravura pieces and... etudes. It's nice to be prepared for *anything* that might be thrown at you, but is it really necessary and worth all the effort ? I guess I'm just trying to justify my lifelong disdain for scales and exercises :)

Offline ajlongspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 691
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #17 on: September 17, 2015, 03:31:19 PM
Maybe instead of using countless hours to try to come up with a difficulty rating of these masterworks, we could use our time wisely to play them instead, and learn for ourselves.

- AJ

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #18 on: September 17, 2015, 03:34:29 PM
Maybe instead of using countless hours to try to come up with a difficulty rating of these masterworks, we could use our time wisely to play them instead, and learn for ourselves.

- AJ

Listen to the sage speak. ;D
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline ajlongspiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 691
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #19 on: September 17, 2015, 03:45:51 PM
Listen to the sage speak. ;D

I do like Sage.. Especially in various Italian dishes.

- AJ

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #20 on: September 17, 2015, 04:12:00 PM
I do like Sage.. Especially in various Italian dishes.

- AJ

Learnest thou your etudes of brother frederic, then join me in the consumption of the dish.

You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline briansaddleback

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 705
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #21 on: September 17, 2015, 08:22:48 PM
These are the ones I have gone through a process learning somewhat and those that I am currently learning / practicing (not ones I have dabbled in a bit out of curiosity; of course, that would mean all of them):

10 2 : Amazing little composition. The payoff is almost entirely for oneself, as most don't know even the sheer  difficulty in trying to manage this piece. I am not anywhere near full tempo, but I can play through it half tempo, yes. And I have noticed my body condition has much to do with how well or not well I play through this. Some days or nights, the piece just doesn't click right in my fingers and on other days, the fingers feel 'fluid' ...lightly running up and down the upper register. That is when this piece is really fun. It reminds me of a image of a dark fairy forest in electric blue outline..with doors opening and shutting. Dont know why but that is my imagination of the piece.
It is a very subtle work that is not thoroughly appreciated by the listener unless really well played and at the right tempo.


10 3 : Those who say this is the easiest are lying. The middle section is advanced. You need proper technique for that part, and dont say you 'performed it in concert' or I am sure you flubbed your way through this part. That middle section is an etude in itself. I still after several years (not always ; there are periods when I return to it yes), have to keep working on it. And I am sure for all the etudes.

10 4: The hard part was not learning the notes, but actually getting the rhythm down correctly for my left hand as my left hand is meatier than my right hand. Right hand can fly up and down the chromatics but my left hand for some reason due to its slight bulkierness I mess up on the rhythm so I have to constantly work on it slowly w the right accenting on every quarter note and so forth.
It is a great piece once you play through it, I always break out in a sweat, not just due to the technical ferocity involved, but by the sheer demoniacal temperament of the melody ..it is always exciting to hear. especially the last part explosion , so many ways to express it this piece. 


10 5 : Hard composition to practice through. So many snags and pitfalls and tricky areas, you can go way off if trying to do the right hand too fast too soon. I made that mistake. So I started again and re worked it slowly the right hand and hit a wall a few months ago. (I was constantly  constantly battling through the tricky areas and it just wasnt registering). I was so miserable about this piece, I put it away. I got sick of it.
Just a few weeks ago, I revisited it, and lo and behold, those parts I constantly attacked every day back then, for some reason, they flowed sort of fluidly on my right hand. The difficulty was still there but it was more doable ; I wasnt at that wall anymore.
Shows that I need time to let the synapses build or something whatever.
That's what it means to let the piece mature on you.


10 12 I was trying to work through this one but the melody got very tiresome it wasnt fresh anymore and I just put it away. The hard part is that tricky left hand section in the middle right before the repeat.
Trick is to get the left hand quieter, and the right hand to really expose itself . (which is vice versa at school when these kids play it).


25 5: just discovered this one recently.  I love this. The middle portion obviously is a sweet lovely tune, but just discovered how 'cute' and 'sprite' and 'spirited' the outer sections are. It was more than just quirky as I previously always thought. This peice really grew on me.
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #22 on: September 17, 2015, 09:38:11 PM
Learnest thou your etudes of brother frederic, then join me in the consumption of the dish.


oh, but i taught fred chopin
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1689
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #23 on: September 17, 2015, 10:58:07 PM
oh, but i taught fred chopin


Me tired of your sexist jokes

Offline glennross

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #24 on: September 17, 2015, 11:24:42 PM
wait when was 25/7 harder than 25/1 and 10/3 easier than 10/6. and when was  10/1 harder than 10/1 and 25/4 that up the list? and why is 10/5 easier than 10/9? i know its an opinion but I'm curious

As you said. It's my opinion. That's also why these lists are completely useless if your not a total beginner. ;)
"The finest instrument, is the mind."
-----------------------------------------

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: Chopin Etudes Scale from 1 to 10
Reply #25 on: September 18, 2015, 12:54:39 AM

Me tired of your sexist jokes
how is this sexist?
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert