The experience of emotion during playing

[vassoni123]

My personal opinion is that you have to learn how to convert your inner emotions to the audience,i don't agree that you must be born with charisma,sure,some people are more giftet when it comes to expression of their feelings,but i think that you may want to practice stage performance a little bit at home while you play,this sounds maybe a little stupid ,but trust me,i guarantee that you've seen dosen kids on those tv talent shows with all that fantastic energy,and when the judges ask them where all that energy comes from,some of them said that they just go on a stage and let the magic happens...try to guess what the other kids said...another thing,i always found easier to play pieces that suit to my personality,mostly from romantic composers,while pieces from classicism are pretty much boring to me...except Mozzart's piano concerts...so,i advise you to take pieces that suit most to your personality,and one more advice is to never force it...i'm just 17,i've been playing piano for 9 years,that's preety much everything i have to offer to you,i know it's not much,but i hope it helps,cheers mate!

[hardy_practice]

There's a well known story Quintillian retells about a boy who, while giving evidence in court and supposedly very upset, is asked why he is crying; to which he replied - 'Because my slave keeps pinching me!'

[dcstudio]

an experience of  actual emotion while performing.

this is a blind Japanese pianist playing his own composition dedicated to the Tsunami victims.  His emotion is not an effort to convey something to the audience but a reflection of his own pain...


thoughts?

[outin]

an experience of  actual emotion while performing.

this is a blind Japanese pianist playing his own composition dedicated to the Tsunami victims.  His emotion is not an effort to convey something to the audience but a reflection of his own pain...


thoughts?

Since you asked...I don't want to see such an overt expression of the pianists feelings, it will spoil the performance for me, because I could never relate to it. I lack the ability to actually feel empathy...I can only rationalize it. When someone is crying I feel obliged to react, but not really sure how. I don't want to get into such conflicts when enjoying a musical performance.

[chopinlover01]

I lack the ability to actually feel empathy...I can only rationalize it. When someone is crying I feel obliged to react, but not really sure how.

Doesn't that make you a sociopath?

On topic, today, after a long session of Beethoven and Bach, my limber and nimble fingers were happy to relax with some Chopin, where all the runs and ornaments went really well- one of the rare occasions that I have felt "emotion" during playing.
I always feel more emotionally connected to a piece when I'm practicing it than performing it, for some reason. Even though the performance is the actual context of the piece.

[outin]

Doesn't that make you a sociopath?

No comment

[dcstudio]

. I lack the ability to actually feel empathy...I can only rationalize it.

I have never in my life heard anyone admit that...  and I don't know you well Outin.. but I have chatted with you.. you don't seem like someone who cannot feel empathy.   Besides, people who genuinely can't empathize...  usually claim to be the most caring, soft-hearted, people in the world... compensating and all that.

I think that may have been projected onto you...but I am going to leave it at that.

It's tough for me to watch that too...   but it's because all I am getting from it is pain... and it doesn't make me very comfortable.   Although his emotion is warranted and genuine... it still distracts from the music..   I can't really remember what his composition sounded like except that it reminded me of the C# minor nocturne progression.

to me.. when this question was posted ... it was this kind of experience that came to mind.  That kind of emotion is something I fight to control during a performance...  because it is distracting and it makes the audience uncomfortable.

we are all in agreement on that point anyway. 

As far as conveying the emotion of a particular piece... that has a lot to do with phrasing and interpretation..  and may be more technical than many folks realize.

[outin]

I have never in my life heard anyone admit that...  and I don't know you well Outin.. but I have chatted with you.. you don't seem like someone who cannot feel empathy.   Besides, people who genuinely can't empathize...  usually claim to be the most caring, soft-hearted, people in the world... compensating and all that.

Unlike some autistic people I usually can interpret other people's feelings, I just find it hard to care. But it doesn't mean that I need to be rude or unkind to people, that wouldn't be rational. I like to be honest though and people who know me don't expect me to offer sympathy, but rather practical solutions to their problems. When they need a shoulder to cry on they will go elsewhere...

[dcstudio]

Unlike some autistic people I usually can interpret other people's feelings, I just find it hard to care. But it doesn't mean that I need to be rude or unkind to people, that wouldn't be rational. I like to be honest though and people who know me don't expect me to offer sympathy, but rather practical solutions to their problems. When they need a shoulder to cry on they will go elsewhere...

wow.. I did not know that about you.. you are a very interesting person outin. 

that honesty is very refreshing and appreciated..  The more I think about it the better it sounds...no one expects you to be their shoulder to cry on???  what a BLESSING that is..lol   No one expects you to feel sorry for them?  nobody says "you just don't care about me!"   You are immune to people who try to use sympathy against you...geez..  you are my hero.

 

[chopinlover01]

No comment

Here.. let me find that for you...

[outin]

that honesty is very refreshing and appreciated..  The more I think about it the better it sounds...no one expects you to be their shoulder to cry on???  what a BLESSING that is..lol   No one expects you to feel sorry for them?  nobody says "you just don't care about me!"   You are immune to people who try to use sympathy against you...geez..  you are my hero.

Of course I don't expect to receive any either. In fact I always preferred to keep my real problems to myself. People's expressions of sympathy just annoy me...

I got the impression from your story that you have been conditioned to be  the opposite, to carry the burden of other people and feel guilty if you don't when you had enough problems of your own.
 But hopefully with age you have now become a bit more selfish in a healthy way

[dcstudio]

Of course I don't expect to receive any either. In fact I always preferred to keep my real problems to myself. People's expressions of sympathy just annoy me...

I got the impression from your story that you have been conditioned to be  the opposite, to carry the burden of other people and feel guilty if you don't when you had enough problems of your own.
 But hopefully with age you have now become a bit more selfish in a healthy way

seriously, Outin...you are my HERO.     and you are absolutely right about me.  I have had to learn that selfish and healthy do belong in the same sentence sometimes.  To not expect to receive sympathy is something I really haven't thought of either...what a concept!!  a big light just came on for me.   Thank you
 sometimes I am really surprised by what I learn here.

[outin]

Here.. let me find that for you...

I never thought of antisocial personality as a disorder. If evolution created  a large group of people with such brain properties, it must have been useful at some point. And it can still be as long as one learns to function well enough in society. Unlike narcissists who actively need other people to crush, well functioning sociopaths don't have to make other people suffer. One just needs to create a suitable lifestyle. No-one can keep up a fasade 24-7... sooner or later it gets too much and then the problems start...

[dcstudio]

No-one can keep up a fasade 24-7... sooner or later it gets too much and then the problems start...

AMEN.

[hfmadopter]

But I don't think the kid was putting up a facade, in fact quite the opposite. Also carrying on in life as though you are in full control of everything that comes down the pike is in itself a facade. Sooner or later something is going to grab your emotion, it's part of life, it's part of our make up as human beings. Additionally he is the composer of the piece and who knows who he may have lost in the tsunami. All things that entered my mind. What I noticed about the music is he never lost it in spite of his own composure. I think it's entirely possible that the subject of the music from his perspective struck him that intensely. I think it's also entirely possible that he may go on to play this in the future more composed.

I had a really bad day before I retired, a coworkers daughter committed suicide and he was pouring his heart to me. He had just returned to work recently and was a mess. Later my wife called, our house had been broken into. I went home and later yet found something very personal to me was gone. I sat down at my piano and new a piece of music came to me ( something that has been only happening for a couple of years now). The emotion * was that day* it was all about that day,  it took me pretty hard. But I finished the piece and then went on to work with it in the following few days without what I call the quiver lip. I even performed the piece a few times. I found it to be too dark for some people and I can't expect them to feel what I feel in the piece. So I haven't perused it much since. It's funny, while the piece was about the emotion of that day, what went through my mind the whole time was the dead 17 yo girl and her name. That name became the name of the piece. This was like really deep stuff, dredged up from out of the soul. Because that's how I am up front, then I deal with it. If something takes me it takes me. Ya know we have seen really tough people broken in the right circumstances through our bible studies. It's pretty amazing when it happens. The same was true in reverse at my piano work shop years ago. This meek sort of woman for the life of her would fall apart at the keyboard, she tried I think for two years to play Fir Elise without trembling. Then she was diagnosed with terminal cancer. She played it flawlessly and a year later was dead. When eternity is your future ( life on earth is not eternal), you are diagnosed terminal and wonder about eternity, when we lose loved ones, suddenly it can be a whole different ball game than the supposed self control one pretends to have through life, whom ever that fits.

Listen, the kid did fine ! And I find you folks seem rather hemmed up, too bad it bothered you.  It didn't bother me at all, I certainly sensed his pain and emotion, but it showed me the heart of his piece of music. What we usually have to go by is a bunch of dead composers, here is a live one. I don't have to guess about it. It's one thing if it was a phony display, that is silly stuff but this kid was in pain and he is The Composer of the Music. You don't want to look at it because it makes you uncomfortable ? This then is about you feeling comfortable and you miss the point of the music, if you are capable of feeling the point of the music ( the true heart of the music) to begin with that is. You won't bare your own emotion is what this is about !! And you think Music is numbers and notes on a page. I'm here to say otherwise, in fact you need to get past the notes on the page and into the emotional end of Music for it to come alive. up until then you are following a road map on a trip and not seeing the scenery.

This thread was inevitably destined to come down to this. Music ( with a capital M) is all about emotion. The math and science , the mechanics of it all are mere tools. But if a musician and especially the composer of the music in concert playing his own piece displays any of that , does anything but sit their looking like a stuffed shirt he did a lousy job ? Great.

[dcstudio]

But I don't think the kid was putting up a facade,

Outins comment about the facade was completely off topic... she wasn't referencing this performance.

I cannot bring myself to criticize  a blind pianist who is playing his own composition which is dedicated to victims of a Tsunami... and crying..  

that would be downright cruel..   I simply stated that what I remembered most was the pain he felt rather than the music he played.  It's hard for me to watch someone in pain at the piano... I can relate to it a little too much... that's why it made me uncomfortable.   He is a brilliant pianist.


 

an experience of  actual emotion while performing.

this is a blind Japanese pianist playing his own composition dedicated to the Tsunami victims.  His emotion is not an effort to convey something to the audience but a reflection of his own pain...


thoughts?

[hfmadopter]

Outins comment about the facade was completely off topic... she wasn't referencing this performance.

I cannot bring myself to criticize  a blind pianist who is playing his own composition which is dedicated to victims of a Tsunami... and crying..  

that would be downright cruel..   I simply stated that what I remembered most was the pain he felt rather than the music he played.  It's hard for me to watch someone in pain at the piano... I can relate to it a little too much... that's why it made me uncomfortable.   He is a brilliant pianist.


 

I get it DC !

And now You probably will never hear that song even with your eyes shut and not see tears streaming from a Japanese persons eyes. What I'm seeing is That might be the very point of the music. He was that taken with the emotion of the event when he composed it. I see the album cover for the piece , A Japanese face, piano in the background with water, lots of water, tears rolling down the cheeks of the person. Awesome art in every direction and in that case fully appropriate if that is what the composer felt. What should we see ? Some fully composed guy, standing tall smoking a pipe or drinking a cup of tea ? No, that's not what the piece is about.

[dcstudio]

I get it DC !

What should we see ? Some fully composed guy, standing tall smoking a pipe or drinking a cup of tea ? No, that's not what the piece is about.

you are absolutely right...  especially in this particular case.. with the Tsunami, a blind pianist/composer playing his own creation and genuine tears... man that is one really powerful emotional combo of which the music is only a part of.  I am a BIG softie.. it HURTS me physically to watch that.  I would end up on the couch with a box of kleenex crying my eyes out if I really opened myself up -- had I been there I would have been sobbing for sure. lol.  THAT is really what makes me uncomfortable.. knowing that any moment I might lose it and start crying...  when I was a kid my brother would tease the crap out of me for crying at sad movies... maybe that has something to do with it, too.   

[hfmadopter]

you are absolutely right...  especially in this particular case.. with the Tsunami, a blind pianist/composer playing his own creation and genuine tears... man that is one really powerful emotional combo of which the music is only a part of.  I am a BIG softie.. it HURTS me physically to watch that.  I would end up on the couch with a box of kleenex crying my eyes out if I really opened myself up -- had I been there I would have been sobbing for sure. lol.  THAT is really what makes me uncomfortable.. knowing that any moment I might lose it and start crying...  when I was a kid my brother would tease the crap out of me for crying at sad movies... maybe that has something to do with it, too.   

Exactly lol !

[Derek]

I'd say I always experience emotion while playing, unless I'm feeling blue or unmotivated that day. I'd describe the emotion as a feeling of connectedness, flow, and satisfaction. I don't think I ever feel like crying when I play a piece that is traditionally considered tragic, like the 2nd movement of the Pathetique for example. But I do feel a very powerful "good" feeling when I play it. Interestingly, years ago when I was more "plugged in" to the ubiquitous god worship of old composers, I *did* used to feel like I was going to cry when I heard that piece. These days I have a considerably larger willingness to have respect for my own creativity, so I no longer feel compelled to add additional emotions or associations to music, I just feel what I feel. I'd say that I even feel emotion at hearing a single note. It's not very complex when it is a single note, but it is a living sensation in my mind that I want to keep feeling. Isn't that an emotion? Maybe I'm confusing definitions.

[dcstudio]

These days I have a considerably larger willingness to have respect for my own creativity, so I no longer feel compelled to add additional emotions or associations to music, I just feel what I feel.

PERFECT!!  that is emotional/musical maturity in a nutshell... well said.   

[chopinlover01]

Derek, you're sounding more and more like John Cage with each post 
Which isn't a bad thing, really.

[hardy_practice]

I'd say I always experience emotion while playing, unless I'm feeling blue or unmotivated that day. I'd describe the emotion as a feeling of connectedness, flow, and satisfaction.

That sounds more like feeling than emotion to me.  We need to keep the terms separate (otherwise William James won't be happy).

[dcstudio]

Derek, you're sounding more and more like John Cage with each post 
Which isn't a bad thing, really.

John Cage came and gave a talk at UNT while I was there.... STRANGE cat... but cool.

[hardy_practice]

One cool cat indeed.

[dcstudio]

One cool cat indeed.

I remember my jazz prof Dan Haerle--who I thought was the most awesome musician I had ever known--was totally star struck by him..  it was kind of funny to watch actually.   Dan didn't bat an eye when Harry Connick Jr came... but he was a nervous wreck around John Cage.

[lostinidlewonder]

I trained as a performer and I was often encouraged not to feel wild emotions while playing. It is called "letting the music play you" instead of "you playing the music". It can trick you into thinking you are playing better if you get all emotional. For consistency and control one feels the intense emotion but controls it. Sure everyone is different but the best performers don't always weep and cry while they play, they have control and produce consistent results. The emotion is contained and we can totally channel it in reality clearly through the music rather than subjectively in our heads and our feelings. This isn't to say emotion is devoid while perform in a controlled manner but we are more interested in the sound production, that wordless beauty captivates us.

[ted]

...wordless beauty captivates us.

Yes, the creation, expression and perception of beauty, that is exactly what it is all about for me too.

[hfmadopter]

Yes, the creation, expression and perception of beauty, that is exactly what it is all about for me too.

After all the many lines of words within this thread I too can relate to the wordless beauty in a performance or performing. "Wordless beauty", I like it, I'll remember that !